Hobbit2 - Chapter 02 - Roast Mutton - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 05-20-2012, 12:10 PM

Yes, there are some troll references in the movie trilogy--are the extended editions the canonical version, or the theatrical release?--but what's a little lack of continuity to folks who put elves at Helm's Deep?

I think Boro's point about the chapter providing an opportunity for a fight sequence is, very sadly, quite likely it's selling point for PJ.

The nonsense and light-hearted comedy (like that of Tom) could well be downplayed. The costumes of the dwarves in the snippets that have been released seem to me to be very dark. I had never imagined the dwarves all got up in black leather. Brown, yes, not not all black. (And miners don't get all leathered up while mining, as underground it is hot--at least the coal mines I have seen are, although weapon-making would likely require the protection of leather.) So I think Esty's question about their portrayal is significant. If the chapter stays, but its style and tone are changed . . . .

I'm glad folks like the idea of thinking how PJ will depict each chapter. I thought it was a way to provide a new approach for a repeat reading of TH. Will try to stay tuned!

Tuor in Gondolin · 05-20-2012, 03:41 PM

So you want PJ changes, eh? Well, how about the trolls pick
up the dwarves and toss them into bags, because, you see,
they're dwarves and it's so funny when you have a running gag
about "tossing" them.

And as for the talking purse...

Boromir88 · 05-20-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I think Boro's point about the chapter providing an opportunity for a fight sequence is, very sadly, quite likely it's selling point for PJ.

The nonsense and light-hearted comedy (like that of Tom) could well be downplayed. The costumes of the dwarves in the snippets that have been released seem to me to be very dark. I had never imagined the dwarves all got up in black leather. Brown, yes, not not all black.

Well then, if you really would like to hear my doom and gloom

I think overall The Hobbit movies will get darker in tone and atmosphere, but I'm sure there will be comedic parts as well. Problem being, Jackson's style of comedy which is usually crude and lewd. Therefor, the trolls will be depicted as a slower and dumber form of Ents (movie-Ents mind you) crossed with drinking games and belching contests.

Oh man, my expectations seem really low, hopefully it's just this chapter, though? Or maybe, if I set such low expectations I will actually be more glad about the enjoyable parts in the movies?

Galadriel55 · 05-20-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh man, my expectations seem really low, hopefully it's just this chapter, though? Or maybe, if I set such low expectations I will actually be more glad about the enjoyable parts in the movies?

Be prepared for the worst and never feel disappointed.

Estelyn Telcontar · 05-21-2012, 03:59 AM

Careful, folks - we don't want this to turn into a thread that has to be moved to the Movies section of the forum! Please make sure the book stays the main focus of the dicussion - as Bb suggested, talk about those parts of the books that may get neglected onscreen.

jallanite · 05-29-2012, 08:09 AM

John Ratliff in his The History of the Hobbit: Part Two: Return to Bag End includes as The Fifth Phase a previously unpublished beginning of yet another revised version of The Hobbit. In this version Tolkien is removing all the chattiness of the narrator and attempting to fix all internal errors of chronology and contradictions with The Lord of the Rings.

When Tolkien sent the beginnings of this rewriting to an unnamed friend for comment she responded with something like “this is wonderful, but it’s not The Hobbit.” Tolkien, presumably aware of other authorial attempts to revise a work which to most readers did not improve it, stopped work on the project.

But apparently someone had pointed out to Tolkien that his two owl calls reference is in error.

The original text says:

‘Now scuttle off, and come back quickly if all is well. If not, come back if you can! If you can’t, hoot twice like a barn owl and once like a screech-owl, and we will do what we can.’

Off Bilbo had to go, before he could explain that he could not hoot even once like any kind of owl any more than fly like a bat.

Tolkien’s intended revision was:

‘Off you go, stealthy mind you! Come back quick, if all is well. If not, come back, if you can. If you can’t, give a signal: the cry of a night-hawk, and two hoots like an owl, and we will do what we can’. With that he pushed the hobbit forward.

So off Bilbo had to go, before he could explain that he had never heard a night-hawk. ‘I wish I could fly like a bat’, he thought.

05-20-2012, 12:10 PM	#1
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Yes, there are some troll references in the movie trilogy--are the extended editions the canonical version, or the theatrical release?--but what's a little lack of continuity to folks who put elves at Helm's Deep? I think Boro's point about the chapter providing an opportunity for a fight sequence is, very sadly, quite likely it's selling point for PJ. The nonsense and light-hearted comedy (like that of Tom) could well be downplayed. The costumes of the dwarves in the snippets that have been released seem to me to be very dark. I had never imagined the dwarves all got up in black leather. Brown, yes, not not all black. (And miners don't get all leathered up while mining, as underground it is hot--at least the coal mines I have seen are, although weapon-making would likely require the protection of leather.) So I think Esty's question about their portrayal is significant. If the chapter stays, but its style and tone are changed . . . . I'm glad folks like the idea of thinking how PJ will depict each chapter. I thought it was a way to provide a new approach for a repeat reading of TH. Will try to stay tuned! __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

05-20-2012, 03:41 PM	#2
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	So you want PJ changes, eh? Well, how about the trolls pick up the dwarves and toss them into bags, because, you see, they're dwarves and it's so funny when you have a running gag about "tossing" them. And as for the talking purse... __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

05-21-2012, 03:59 AM	#5
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Careful, folks - we don't want this to turn into a thread that has to be moved to the Movies section of the forum! Please make sure the book stays the main focus of the dicussion - as Bb suggested, talk about those parts of the books that may get neglected onscreen. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

05-29-2012, 08:09 AM	#6
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	John Ratliff in his The History of the Hobbit: Part Two: Return to Bag End includes as The Fifth Phase a previously unpublished beginning of yet another revised version of The Hobbit. In this version Tolkien is removing all the chattiness of the narrator and attempting to fix all internal errors of chronology and contradictions with The Lord of the Rings. When Tolkien sent the beginnings of this rewriting to an unnamed friend for comment she responded with something like “this is wonderful, but it’s not The Hobbit.” Tolkien, presumably aware of other authorial attempts to revise a work which to most readers did not improve it, stopped work on the project. But apparently someone had pointed out to Tolkien that his two owl calls reference is in error. The original text says: ‘Now scuttle off, and come back quickly if all is well. If not, come back if you can! If you can’t, hoot twice like a barn owl and once like a screech-owl, and we will do what we can.’ Off Bilbo had to go, before he could explain that he could not hoot even once like any kind of owl any more than fly like a bat. Tolkien’s intended revision was: ‘Off you go, stealthy mind you! Come back quick, if all is well. If not, come back, if you can. If you can’t, give a signal: the cry of a night-hawk, and two hoots like an owl, and we will do what we can’. With that he pushed the hobbit forward. So off Bilbo had to go, before he could explain that he had never heard a night-hawk. ‘I wish I could fly like a bat’, he thought.