Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[Morsul the Dark]

I've been trying to figure out Phantom's vote.

With Phantom clearly innocent I'm wondering if he saw something we didn't... Phantom really only mentions Lottie once saying her post #57 is odd. Then goes and votes her. May have just been a day 1 throw away vote but otherwise I can't see a reason.

x'ed with Eonwe 3x

[Pomegranate]

Lottie-votes are hardly suspicious, as the two people who cast them are known innocents (Boro and phantom).

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm not saying they're suspicious. I'm wondering what they saw that was suspicious enough for a vote. Lottie looks fine to me so far but I'm wondering if I'm missing something they saw is my point.

[Pomegranate]

Sorry, Morsul, I was reacting to Steve's post rather than yours ^^

Agh. I should be voting pretty much now, and I feel I'm going to be badly off due to the fact that we haven't heard of phantom and his dream (or none?) yet. I think I'll go for one of the three late Eomer-voters, for I don't think I have time and energy to go through everyone today and I'm pretty sure there's at least one KM in there.

The problem is, all of them look decent to me at the moment - or at least reasonable in the way they've seemed reasonable to me before. However, there's something in sally's behaviour that's fishy - the same fishy as always or a wolfy one, I dare not say, but fishy anyways.

Indeed, Morsul was relatively jumpy. However, I feel like that's something that is easy to grab as a wolf and start elaborating from that. And, not knowing Morsul outside of this game, his logic would still seem valid enough, and I feel like sally's tearing it apart just for the sake of the process. Also there was a lot of suspicion towards Morsul yesterday - maybe sally's following from that, assuming that it will be easy enough to get people to hunt Morsul down.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Clearly. But which was your reason, Morsul? Were you doing it because you thought I was guilty, because I was “bandwagoning” on you, or because you wanted to save Eomer? If it’s the third, why not just vote Steve? Oh, right. He looked fishy to you yesterDay but not vote-worthy. Why is that? If you were so concerned about saving Eomer, why go for a case that depended on Dun not following through with information instead of putting Steve further in the lead to protect Eomer?

Did you read what Morsul wrote? He assumed that Eomer was a seer and you were guilty, these two parts of the same set of interpretations? It would make sense to vote for you then instead of Steve. Two relatively reachable goals at once - saving the seer, lynching a KM.

[Pomegranate]

On Eonwe I can't really get a good read, but he's definitely less suspicious than sally. And Brin, I feel like I'd need to understand the situation with Boro and the KM and why exactly was Boro killed a lot more to decide that Brin is either innocent or quilty, though I feel like there's a hint there for either. My brain just can't get around it, and even though I try and try to grasp it is escapes. I think I'm leaning to voting for sally pretty strongly, but I'll have a moment still, so if someone has any reasonable objections or points to make about it, I'll listen before I cast my vote, which will happen in about 30 minutes.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Agh. I should be voting pretty much now, and I feel I'm going to be badly off due to the fact that we haven't heard of phantom and his dream (or none?) yet.
.

I think last night's dream went to Shasta. Unless I read it wrong:

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

See, the thing is, the person revealed to me was an innocent Phantom, so I could definitely see Boro being a dead Elendil. Which... is sad.

Which would mean in phantom's chain he'd be the dreamer tonight if hopefully Boro was isildur and not Elendil or Anarion. in which case it's a tossup which I hopes comes heads up for the villiage not the other way around.

[Pomegranate]

thus the first night's should've gone to phantom, but i'll leave that for someone else to explain. I'll have to go, so ++sally, do catch some baddies while i'm gone, please!

[the phantom]

Awake and feeling much better than yesterday. Trying to get caught up...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Did you read what Morsul wrote? He assumed that Eomer was a seer and you were guilty, these two parts of the same set of interpretations? It would make sense to vote for you then instead of Steve. Two relatively reachable goals at once - saving the seer, lynching a KM.

I can certainly understand wanting to keep Eomer's role under wraps, but the alleged logic of this falls apart under further inspection.

1. Dun put Sally on his three person list. Fair enough. Everyone had a list, and everyone's bound to be on one or two people's lists at least, so no problems here.

2. Eomer voted for Sally. The logic holds up so far. If Eomer is (or rather was) the seer, it makes absolute sense for him to vote for a guilty Sally if Dun had her on that list.

3. Dun voted for Eomer. If Dun received a dream, he'd know the results, but not who sent it to him, so there's little chance he would know not to vote for Eomer. However, if he's the one who received the dream and it said Sally was guilty, why wouldn't he vote for Sally? Therein lies my biggest problem with the way Morsul is explaining his motives. He's claiming to act upon information that the person who had it didn't even act upon.

4. Morsul voted for Sally. As far as his suspicions go, that's fine, as he had voiced his suspicion of both Sally and Steve, and Eomer wasn't actually in too much danger at the time, so it's not a huge issue, but when he further "explains" his vote, he refers to his vote as "try to get a least a semi-not random vote in." If he were basing it off the dream chain listed above, it wouldn't be random at all.

So yes, him voting for me kept Eomer "safe" for the Day (except for the part where Eomer was lynched at the end of it). However, voting for me rather than Steve also gave Steve a better chance of survival. It's often convenient for a villain to suspect their fellows, yet in the end decide an innocent is a better lynch option. It's not a new trick.

Am I ready to say without doubt that Steve and Morsul are fellows? Certainly not, but if one turns out to be against us, I'll not be surprised if the other is as well. Morsul's quasi-guilty behavior is definitely not a notion that should be tossed aside as Pom is doing, which is another concern entirely.



Not x'd, but I do need to read everything since the quoted post in more detail.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

"try to get a least a semi-not random vote in." If he were basing it off the dream chain listed above, it wouldn't be random at all.
.

I wasn't 100% on the idea hence semi-not-random. It was just the only thing I could see that would explain his vote at all. And you're right I Should have looked at Zil's vote but I didn't because I didn't think to. Luckily I'm not any police force, solve rates would be awful.

Sally's suspicions of me today seem much better than yesterday. and she's right Pom sort of tossed them aside fairly easily... a bit suspicious. (I know someone not suspecting me is more suspicious than the person who does, welcome to my brain)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I wasn't 100% on the idea hence semi-not-random. It was just the only thing I could see that would explain his vote at all. And you're right I Should have looked at Zil's vote but I didn't because I didn't think to. Luckily I'm not any police force, solve rates would be awful.

I find the last sentence amusing. I actually have solved one today, with what seems like 100 other things going on.

I'm glad to see the focus on Boro has eased somewhat. Yes, it was important to take a look at what might have made him a target, but that only takes us so far.
It's only useful in ferreting out baddies if he said something that we can narrow down as alarming to one in particular. Otherwise, they went after him for A. Looking like Elendil; or B. Looking like a Gifted.

Anyway, I think YesterDay's votes are more helpful. Also, just skimming the last few hours, I think people have some interesting points about Pom. Some of her suspicions look rather forced.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I can certainly understand wanting to keep Eomer's role under wraps, but the alleged logic of this falls apart under further inspection.

1. Dun put Sally on his three person list. Fair enough. Everyone had a list, and everyone's bound to be on one or two people's lists at least, so no problems here.

2. Eomer voted for Sally. The logic holds up so far. If Eomer is (or rather was) the seer, it makes absolute sense for him to vote for a guilty Sally if Dun had her on that list.

3. Dun voted for Eomer. If Dun received a dream, he'd know the results, but not who sent it to him, so there's little chance he would know not to vote for Eomer. However, if he's the one who received the dream and it said Sally was guilty, why wouldn't he vote for Sally? Therein lies my biggest problem with the way Morsul is explaining his motives. He's claiming to act upon information that the person who had it didn't even act upon.

4. Morsul voted for Sally. As far as his suspicions go, that's fine, as he had voiced his suspicion of both Sally and Steve, and Eomer wasn't actually in too much danger at the time, so it's not a huge issue, but when he further "explains" his vote, he refers to his vote as "try to get a least a semi-not random vote in." If he were basing it off the dream chain listed above, it wouldn't be random at all.

So yes, him voting for me kept Eomer "safe" for the Day (except for the part where Eomer was lynched at the end of it). However, voting for me rather than Steve also gave Steve a better chance of survival. It's often convenient for a villain to suspect their fellows, yet in the end decide an innocent is a better lynch option. It's not a new trick.

Am I ready to say without doubt that Steve and Morsul are fellows? Certainly not, but if one turns out to be against us, I'll not be surprised if the other is as well. Morsul's quasi-guilty behavior is definitely not a notion that should be tossed aside as Pom is doing, which is another concern entirely.



Not x'd, but I do need to read everything since the quoted post in more detail.

See this while incorrect conclusion makes sense to me. If I was Sally I'd suspect me. It was my careless research that's at fault but there it is. Does this clear Sally for me? No but this looks like a lot of work just to throw an innocent under the bus for a KM.

I'm looking through Pom's posts righ now but so far, one thing that's interesting is his suspicion of Brinn, granted this is before phantom confirms her innocence but for the most part it seemed most agreed she probably was innocent based on Boro's post.

X'ed phantom

[Mänwe]

I'm here now-thankfully its the weekend. Thoughts to come soon!