WW CI - Mutton yesterDay, mutton toDay and mutton toMorrow

[Rikae]

Oh, nice work Lottie!

This makes Copper look better. Going to have to go over Cab's posts and see how it reflects on everyone else.

Oh yeah, and on Morsul:

I told you so
I told you so
I told you so


Yeah.

[Inziladun]

Nice! Neat work from Lottie!

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Anyway, aside from looking at McCaber's posts, I'm going to be taking another look at Inzil. I thought it was reasonably likely that one out of him or Morsul was a wizard but that it couldn't be both. Since Morsul was innocent after all, this new information means my suspicion of Inzil has gone way up, so I need to see if it checks out.

Well, getting Cab gives us another Night of grace, but you could do better then me.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Oh yeah, and on Morsul:

I told you so
I told you so
I told you so


Yeah.

Yeah, yourself.
I simply wasn't willing to switch my suspect with little evidence.

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, getting Cab gives us another Night of grace, but you could do better then me.

Any suggestions as to who, in that case?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Any suggestions as to who, in that case?

I intend to look at Nerwen and Sally.

[Inziladun]

To elaborate, I'm specifically interested to see if there appear to be any connections between those two and Pom and/or Cab.

[Inziladun]

Ok, interactions with and comments of Nerwen regarding the known Wizards.

Here is banter with Pom in troll-fashion.

Here she responds to Rikae with "An' when did Pom, Lad 'n' Cab say anything' about wizards not actin' like wizards?" Two Wizards there. Coincidence? Maybe. Seems rather careless for a Nerwizard.

This is her analysis of the Pom-lynch. nothing really notable there.

Questions whether Pom was bussed, concludes there was likely an attempt to save her.

Here she says Pom's seeming not knowing Cop's gender could be a point in Cop's favor.

Agrees with Cab that Volo was a "weird choice" of a wolf kill. You think?

And...that's all I saw. No obviously sinister links, at least not from her posts.

[Rikae]

I don't want to get tunnel vision but Inzil is looking worse and worse. I'll explain more soon (I hope. My internet is being bratty).

I kind of hope Zil is a wolf now, though, because going through Day one I see this from me:

Originally Posted by Rikae

I see, so Pom, Inzil and McCaber are trying to convince us that wizards don't act like wizards. Suspicious. Why would they be called "wizards" if they didn't change anyone's role, hmmm? Who would want us to think the wizards had fewer powers than they do, other than... wizards?

"Finding" three wolves in a banter post would just be awesome.

[Coppermirror]

...I can't believe that Inzil just self-voted.

Anyway, I haven't been able to use my computer for most of the Day so far, so I haven't yet done the analysis I planned to do on McCaber or the second look at Inzil in light of Morsul being innocent and McCaber a wizard. Although Morsul being innocent makes me much more suspicious of Inzil, it's not as if it's a foregone conclusion that after checking through all the facts I'll be wanting to vote for him. And only Rikae had voted for him so far.

And now Inzil's just self-voted. Why? The village (um, troll group) is pretty small now, so if he's innocent, that's tantamount to throwing us to the wolves, er, wizards. Although being frustrated over Rikae (and to an extent, I suppose, me) going for him would understandable. And if he's a wizard, I suppose it could be either a way of pretending to be frustrated innocent, or a way of signaling to a wizard-mate that they shouldn't try to save him.

[Nogrod]

Now what is this tom-foolery?

But yes, Zil's self-vote looks quite bad as it is hard for me to see why on earth would an innocent troll do that kind of thing with such a low numbers of us left.

Sally's strong reaction looks like she's coming to save a fellow by attacking Rikae. Then again she voted for Pom on D1 at quite a critical moment which kind of makes her look better.

And Rikae clearly stays up too late (I should know how that affects one... ).


This is going to be interesting.

I'll try to check things like voting patterns - and finally skim through D3 and D4 - later toDay.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

...I can't believe that Inzil just self-voted.

Anyway, I haven't been able to use my computer for most of the Day so far, so I haven't yet done the analysis I planned to do on McCaber or the second look at Inzil in light of Morsul being innocent and McCaber a wizard. Although Morsul being innocent makes me much more suspicious of Inzil, it's not as if it's a foregone conclusion that after checking through all the facts I'll be wanting to vote for him. And only Rikae had voted for him so far.

And now Inzil's just self-voted. Why? The village (um, troll group) is pretty small now, so if he's innocent, that's tantamount to throwing us to the wolves, er, wizards. Although being frustrated over Rikae (and to an extent, I suppose, me) going for him would understandable. And if he's a wizard, I suppose it could be either a way of pretending to be frustrated innocent, or a way of signaling to a wizard-mate that they shouldn't try to save him.

If Zil and Rikae are both innocent, then there are five people left to vote, of whom two are wolves. So this would be an awfully bad time for an innocent to self-vote. (Not that Rikae's was great, either.)

Also, if Rikae is guilty after all, the tack Sally is now taking, we've been pretty much done for ever since Brinn died. Unfortunately that does happen sometimes– the Seer appearing to "clear" someone she hasn't actually dreamed– but there's little hope for the village in such a case, unless the supposed "known innocent" starts acting really suspiciously. As of the time of posting, I don't think that applies.

Originally Posted by Rikae

This is precisely why it is sometimes good for them to know, or think they know, who the hunter is.
Catch my drift?

Following that line of thought– is it possible the wolves had picked up "Hunter vibes" from Lottie? I had, for a couple of Days before that, though I can't put my finger on why. If they had, her views on guilt/innocence as of yesterDay might mean something– in the sense they would then likely pick a Night when she didn't seem to suspect any of them strongly. (This, you see, is sort of the opposite of looking at the views of a dead Seer.) Here (#567), with only twenty minutes to go, she says Nog would actually be her preferred lynch over Morsul, and that she is "very wary" of him, and this is the only really strong suspicion she gives that Day of anyone except Morsul himself.

This is making quite an assumption, though– this close to the endgame, they could have simply been more interested in getting rid of a difficult-to-lynch player.

[Coppermirror]

I'm having computer trouble, so it may be a few hours before I can do anything useful. The weather is and has been so hot toDay that I don't dare leave my computer running for long. Maybe in an hour or so the temperature will cool down enough for it to be safe. Preferably before it gets to be daylight again...Anyway, assuming that happens I should be around later, since it's not as if I can sleep in this sort of weather either.

[Nogrod]

There needs to be a good reason for me to vote Copper: McCaberWizard and PomWizard voted for him in concerto on D1.

Okay, a crazy scenario: Copper is a wolf and they did it to save another fellow aka. Nerwen (with whom Copper tied with their two consecutive votes). But yes, I'm not going to take that one seriously, at least without further reasons to do so.

But that double-vote by the Wizards does does lead up to the question whether they then tried to save Nerwen there?

[Coppermirror]

Back and reading.

[satansaloser2005]

A few thoughts on our resident crazy lady (said with reason and affection, I promise).

Originally Posted by Rikae

Oh yeah, and on Morsul:

I told you so
I told you so
I told you so


Yeah.

Yes, yes you did. You also told us a few other things....

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm strongly considering voting for Morsul:

-for trying to lump himself in with Gil yesterday as an "easy lynch".
-for the countdown to a wizard victory. Yes, it's just the facts, but something about the way he posted looks like counting down to his own win. I can't put my finger on what that "something" is, but it feels wrong.

And then, once he had votes....

Originally Posted by Rikae

No. I don't want to lynch him anymore. It seems too much as if he's been chosen for the purpose.

Wolves don't always bandwagon. Sometimes they just talk other people into doing it for them, then sit back and watch the carnage, afterward being able to claim they had nothing to do with the slaying of an innocent. Rikae did exactly, exactly that.

And then there's this that you said about me, which presses one of my suspicion buttons....

Originally Posted by Rikae

She started off with a lot of strange posts - I thought so at the time - implying she doesn't know anything about trolls. Really. Yes, it was banter, but I think everyone here knows Tolkien's trolls have pockets! I have no idea what that is or why she'd do it, unless maybe as some sort of wizard hint to the cobbler or... er, maybe a hunter hint? Purse troll? I don't even know.

I'm sorry, why did you feel the need to point out a gifted hint again? What made you think that could possibly be a good idea?

Back to the main issue, however, Rikae's flip flop (though not in the style of either of our wonderful mods) about Morsul yesterDay and toDay looks quite bad to me. I had left her to her own devices due to the rather heated nature of some conversations on the thread, but I simply can't ignore this. She put a Morsul lynch, which was already in most of our minds at the time, on the table with a shiny apple in its mouth, and then when people decided to bite, she backed away and is now calling us animals.

I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

Of course now I'm not sure what to think of her exchange(s) with Dun. Her throwaway (and it was!) vote for him yesterDay was wasteful, even if she were innocent and thought him a wolf. I mean, really, thanks for not deciding to kill me, but what the heck?

If she's a wizard, she's clearly not afraid to vote for her mates, as she cast the first vote against McCaber on Day 1 (though Day 1 is always a bit with the random and it's entirely possible she didn't think he'd garner more votes). Would she be bussing Dun in such a showy fashion though? And would he go along with it like this? Both of them are tricksy, clever little Werewolfers, so I wouldn't put it past them, but doing it like this is just....crazy.


I have a lot to think about....

x'd with a very self-confident Rikae, which just worries me more

[satansaloser2005]

A relevant song, I believe.

(It's also stuck in my head, and thus you all must suffer with me.)

[Rikae]

I "flip flopped" about Morsul because I saw the way things were going. Very much like - well, exactly like - I "flip flopped" on Cop on day One.

Sometimes - no, often - people's reactions to one's suspicions are more suspicions than whatever the original suspicion was based on.

Of course I could have done that as a wizard. It could also be that Brinn didn't dream of me at all, but just thought I looked innocent. I suppose I could also have had two fellow wizards who, unfortunately, both followed my suspicion and simultaneously voted accordingly! That would be strange and wonderful.

You're reaching.

Originally Posted by Sally

I'm sorry, why did you feel the need to point out a gifted hint again? What made you think that could possibly be a good idea?

A hunter hint. See the difference?

You're really, really reaching. Why?

Originally Posted by Sally

Of course now I'm not sure what to think of her exchange(s) with Dun. Her throwaway (and it was!) vote for him yesterDay was wasteful, even if she were innocent and thought him a wolf. I mean, really, thanks for not deciding to kill me, but what the heck?

Yeah, if you were paying attention, any vote at that point was a throwaway.
It's kind of like our elections: I know only a Democrat or a Republican will win (in my state, only a Democrat); I consider both choices worthless so I make a statement with my vote, though I know that person won't win. I know some people don't get that, but that's how I roll.

Originally Posted by Sally

If she's a wizard, she's clearly not afraid to vote for her mates, as she cast the first vote against McCaber on Day 1 (though Day 1 is always a bit with the random and it's entirely possible she didn't think he'd garner more votes).

When I'm a wolf I'm not. And if I had two of them blatantly following my lead like that, I might even do so out of annoyance. Do you really think that's what happened, though, Sally?

[satansaloser2005]

I don't care how you want to spin it, Rikae. Pressing for a lynch, then backing off and saying, "Hey, guys, why'd you do that?" is....oh, wait, isn't that kind of what Pom did on Day 1?

Whether or not Brinn dreamt of you is irrelevant, and I honestly don't know why you're bringing it up.

As for McCaber, I didn't say you nearly lynched him on purpose, or even that your guild mates followed, although I find it interesting that you bring that up when we already know it's not possible (given that, you know Pom didn't even vote for McCaber, and two of the other people who did are dead and now proven innocent, which just leaves Nog).

A hunter, like any other gifted, is best left in the shadows. I realize it's not as much of a risk as pointing out that you may who the ranger is, but that still doesn't make it a good idea. The wolves can base their plans on the disposition of the hunter, and I've seen it happen before, so I know how crucial it can be for the hunter to keep their identity a secret until either their death or a time of their own choosing. (Also, outing gifteds is a pet peeve of mine. It's not your role. You don't get to decide when they reveal it. Note it in your head, say maybe you just are misinterpreting something, put them on a trusted list, whatever, but never assume that they want to be pointed at.)

You actually have a good point about your vote on Dun. I keep forgetting that the first to a tie dies. I apologize.

That said, my comment on your attitude toDay regarding the lynch still stands. I believe that you thought the lynch was a wizard plot, but I also believe you could have kept your distance to keep yourself from being implicated, not because you didn't want Morsul dead.

You're allowed to defend yourself, but I'm still allowed to think suspicious behavior is suspicious. It's sort of part of the game.

[satansaloser2005]

I need to sleep. I'll be back in the morning, at which time I'll look at Dun outside the context of Rikae, and will also give more thought to the rest of those left in the group.

x'd with Rikae *hugs*

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I don't care how you want to spin it, Rikae. Pressing for a lynch, then backing off and saying, "Hey, guys, why'd you do that?" is....oh, wait, isn't that kind of what Pom did on Day 1?

If you want to be incredibly simplistic about things, yes. It is also what I do, and what I have always done, when people join in my suspicion in a manner, and with timing, that is itself suspicious.
You know, like known wizards followed my suspicious several times already in this game alone - Cab even saying "great minds thinking alike"!

So, you know, as a strategy for finding wizards it kind of works and I intend to continue doing it.

Originally Posted by Sally

Whether or not Brinn dreamt of you is irrelevant, and I honestly don't know why you're bringing it up.

Um, I don't know, maybe because she made a point of defending me the whole time she was alive?
Do you think she would have dreamt me and defended me if I was evil?
Do we have two cobblers or what?

Originally Posted by Sally

As for McCaber, I didn't say you nearly lynched him on purpose, or even that your guild mates followed, although I find it interesting that you bring that up when we already know it's not possible (given that, you know Pom didn't even vote for McCaber, and two of the other people who did are dead and now proven innocent, which just leaves Nog).

I was talking about how Pom and McCaber followed me in suspecting Cop.

Originally Posted by Sally

A hunter, like any other gifted, is best left in the shadows.

I disagree. Not always.

Originally Posted by Sally

The wolves can base their plans on the disposition of the hunter.

This is precisely why it is sometimes good for them to know, or think they know, who the hunter is.
Catch my drift?

You actually have a good point about your vote on Dun. I keep forgetting that the first to a tie dies. I apologize.

That said, my comment on your attitude toDay regarding the lynch still stands. I believe that you thought the lynch was a wizard plot, but I also believe you could have kept your distance to keep yourself from being implicated, not because you didn't want Morsul dead.

You're allowed to defend yourself, but I'm still allowed to think suspicious behavior is suspicious. It's sort of part of the game.

Did I say something wasn't allowed?
I said you're reaching. I mean, you look as though you want people to suspect me, more than you look as though you suspect me.

EDIT: Said Cab where I should have said Cop above, fixed it. These names are too close!

[Rikae]

Argh. Sorry for sounding so nasty/sarcastic. I think I'd better call it a night.

[Rikae]

About Inzil... I mean, he's mad about me supposedly saying the Morsul voters had tunnel vision - why does he feel accused in that way? I never said that.
I saw several people zeroing in at once on what would be an easy lynch and without much reason. How my vote, the first of the day, for someone no one else seems to have a problem with, is anything like that is beyond me.
If he was an innocent who felt there were good reasons for voting Morsul, why jump like that?
No one listened to me yesterDay. In fact, I have a feeling people generally don't listen to me: that I'm one of those players people write off as "crazy" and unable to produce sense. When people do listen to me, those people are almost invariably evil.
Sorry, don't mean to sound so whiny.

EDIT: X'd with Sally.