WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Inziladun]

Ok. I wasn't counting the Lovers like you are.

I'd still like to know how you could have been so sure Kit was innocent.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I'd still like to know how you could have been so sure Kit was innocent.

I was sure Kit was innocent because I was sure Kit was innocent. I had the benefit of not being brainwashed by the wolves for the better part of two Days, so I recognized the bandwagon for what it was: a frame attempt on an innocent.


x'd since Dun again

[satansaloser2005]

FYI: I need to get some sleep in the semi-immediate future, but I should be able to pop on briefly during breaks and things tomorrow and hopefully can vote sometime in the afternoon.

[A Little Green]

I should be on my way to the train to work already, but real quick -

Worried about Lommy, not worried about Boro, Sally confuses me but seems likely innocent, and I had a lot of stuff I wanted to comment on but have no time! I'll be back sometime before DL.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by teh rulez

The Bear and the Maiden Fair - lovers. Only win if both survive till the end (regardless of whether it's the Lions or the Inn who win the rest of the game). Can communicate at night. The Bear, being a Werebear, kills one person a night as long as the the Maiden is alive. If one dies, the remaining lover then chooses to help the side that did not kill their lover (that is, becomes effectively an ordo if they're night killed, or cobbler if they're lynched).

Could our dear moddesses clarify the winning conditions? It seems all players are not interpreting them the same way...

So the lions win now if there are them and two non-lions/innocents/ordos/villagers left? Which of those and with what kind of definition?

What is the Bear and what is the Maiden - and do their status in regards to counting the result change somehow if one of them dies?

The rules say that in case of one going down the remaining lover "effectively becomes" an ordo or a cobbler. Those both are normally counted as "non-lions" and thus someone whose numbers are counted for the village. But what does it mean they "become" it? Isn't the maiden a non-lion already for counting purposes?

To put it plainly. How many normal villagers (ordos and/or gifteds) we need to have to win a) if both the Bear and the maiden are also alive, b) if of the lovers only the maiden is alive, c) if of the lovers only the Bear is alive?


EDIT:
HAHA. Sorry the bad phrasing: the plain question of course is: how many normal villagers will lose the game... Naturally we need to kill all lions to win, but at which numbers we lose (presuming there are two lions alive)?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To put it plainly. How many normal villagers (ordos and/or gifteds) we need to have to win a) if both the Bear and the maiden are also alive, b) if of the lovers only the maiden is alive, c) if of the lovers only the Bear is alive?

Good point, Nog. We hadn't thought of that - in most games with a Bear, the village has had to kill it in order to win, while many Lovers have been a wolf/ordo pair.

Kath is at work (as am I, but I have a neat desk job and don't have to spend all my day yelling at children), so I'll take the liberty to decide.

I would say that as long as they are together, the lovers are on nobody's side and don't count as "normal villagers" in the tally. If there are two lions, you'll need to have two villagers in addition to the lovers.

However, if one of them dies, the other will count as a normal villager. If there are two lions, you'll have to have two villagers, and one of them can be the surviving Maiden or the Bear (acting as an ordo or cobbler depending on the nature of their lover's death).

I feel this is fair because otherwise the Maiden & the Bear would have a hard time winning with the lions, and it also makes sense game-wise - if the bear is actively defending himself against the lions (in a game ending situation), he's too big and strong for them to tackle without suffering losses, so it's in their best interests to let him and his lover go.