Gandalf, Moria, and Arrest

[Leaf]

They also represented certainty that the fellowship has been tracked by the servants of Sauron. Hence the attempt to go through the mines to escape their enemies eyes for a while.

[Moonraker]

Originally Posted by Leaf

They also represented certainty that the fellowship has been tracked by the servants of Sauron. Hence the attempt to go through the mines to escape their enemies eyes for a while.

I don't believe the wolves tracked the Company from Mordor. they stumbled on them by luck, whilst at the same time following orders to snuff out lands that the Company may pass.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

I don't believe the wolves tracked the Company from Mordor. they stumbled on them by luck, whilst at the same time following orders to snuff out lands that the Company may pass.

Leaf said "tracked by Sauron" not "tracked from Mordor." Hardly the same thing.

It seems to me that Moria was as good a place as any to drop off the radar for a while. Remember that no one knew what Durin's Bane actually was, so the idea of entering its territory was not an assurance of anything.

[Moonraker]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Leaf said "tracked by Sauron" not "tracked from Mordor." Hardly the same thing.

It seems to me that Moria was as good a place as any to drop off the radar for a while. Remember that no one knew what Durin's Bane actually was, so the idea of entering its territory was not an assurance of anything.

Moria was a venture into the unknown, and with no news on Balin, even the dwarves were afraid of what became of his rule in Moria. The wolves may have been sent from Mordor, or they may have not. But the tracking and orders were directed from Mordor.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Moria was a venture into the unknown,

Why would Aragorn even contemplate arresting Gandalf when it appears that going through Mordor was not out of their equations anyway?

Originally Posted by FotR, The Ring Goes South

not until it is plain that there is no other way.

They did not know who or what was there, be it friend or foe. The impression you give is that they should never go there, and that Gandalf would have been forbidden to venture there by the Council, as if they knew they would encounter a Balrog.

[Leaf]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

I don't believe the wolves tracked the Company from Mordor.

Well, nobody suggested that?!

Originally Posted by Moonraker

they stumbled on them by luck, whilst at the same time following orders to snuff out lands that the Company may pass.

Can you back this assumption up with textual evidence? It´s highly unlikely that those wolves "stumbled on them by luck". Hollin was under the observation of Sauron´s servants and there are several instances in the text that can confirm this. We have the lack of birds and other small animals which is noted by Aragorn. He takes this as a bad sign:

Originally Posted by Aragorn, The fellowship of the ring, Book II: The ring goes south

But I have a sense of watchfulness, and of fear, that I have never had here before.

Then there are the flocks of Crebain scouting over Hollin and Aragorn concludes:

Originally Posted by Aragorn, The fellowship of the ring, Book II: The ring goes south

Hollin is no longer wholesome for us: it is being watched.

And we have a strange shadow which passes over the stars. It was felt by Frodo and Gandalf, rather than seen. This was the earliest encouter with a Nazgul on a fellbeast!

[Moonraker]

Originally Posted by Leaf

Well, nobody suggested that?!



Can you back this assumption up with textual evidence? It´s highly unlikely that those wolves "stumbled on them by luck". Hollin was under the observation of Sauron´s servants and there are several instances in the text that can confirm this. We have the lack of birds and other small animals which is noted by Aragorn. He takes this as a bad sign: Then there are the flocks of Crebain scouting over Hollin and Aragorn concludes:
And we have a strange shadow which passes over the stars. It was felt by Frodo and Gandalf, rather than seen. This was the earliest encouter with a Nazgul on a fellbeast!

If you can prove to me that the wolves were fully aware of the whereabouts of the Company beforehand? If they were, then Mordor would have sent them and a force ten fold stronger to get the Ring back. The crows spotted them and reported this back into Sauron? Not conclusive. The more likely scenario is that the wolves were only one of a number of enemies sent by Mordor to scour the various lands, with these wolves being one of the few groups to have got lucky in being given the right direction to scour. Gandalf said all lands were being watched by the enemy, so Sauron's minions were scattered in different lands and lying in hope that the Company passed their way.

[Leaf]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

If you can prove to me that the wolves were fully aware of the whereabouts of the Company beforehand? If they were, then Mordor would have sent them and a force ten fold stronger to get the Ring back. The crows spotted them and reported this back into Sauron? Not conclusive. The more likely scenario is that the wolves were only one of a number of enemies sent by Mordor to scour the various lands, with these wolves being one of the few groups to have got lucky in being given the right direction to scour. Gandalf said all lands were being watched by the enemy, so Sauron's minions were scattered in different lands and lying in hope that the Company passed their way.

Well, that wasn't my point. I was trying to explain that the fellowship had good reasons to assume that they are no longer 'undercover'. They could not know if the wolves are just a scattered group or if more forces are on their way to hunt them down. So it's only reasonably to leave the open land.