The Battle of the 5+ Armies

[Aganzir]

So. I think Hobbit III: The Battle of the Five Armies was a slightly better adaptation than the first two (mostly because it doesn't introduce as many new crackpot ideas which have no place there). As a film, it wasn't much better though, and I don't think I would've enjoyed it if I hadn't read the book.

I should mention it's 4.30 am and I have work tomorrow, so I haven't proofread this monster of a post. Expect stream of consciousness and bad grammar.

It starts with Smaug wreaking havoc in Laketown. This actually looks quite cool, especially from a distance - they did well with the visuals there. The Master was his lovely slimy self, sailing away with all the gold (even if Bard tried to hang him with an improvised noose) until the dragon got him. Us Song of Ice and Fire fans enjoyed the reference to "waking the dragon".

Bard then proceeded to climb a tower (where a bell was tolling with nobody ringing it) and shot - and missed three arrows and broke his bow, but fortunately his son Bain Dragonbane was at hand with the Black Arrow. This obviously angered the dragon who landed and started doing a monologue ("Who are you to think you can defeat me etc") and crawling gradually closer, which was a very smart thing to do. Bard though, the clever fellow, tied his bowstring to beams and rested the Black Arrow on his son's shoulder. I am amazed a) Bain's face wasn't torn in half by the feathers; b) he maintained his balance and wasn't thrown off by the string when Bard released the arrow straight into the dragon's hollow spot (which he found without the thrush, thank you very much).

And whooosh: the very moment the dragon crash lands in the lake, the ravens start returning to the mountain! Thank Durin!

I think Smaug's death was alright but what I don't understand is, why not do it in the second film rather than giving 10 minutes for it in this on?

We move to Dol Guldur where Gandalf is in a cage. Just when an orc is about to kill him, they zoom on bare female feet which I think we've seen a few times before. Galadriel picks Gandalf up and carries him some way until the Nine assault her, but lo! she is not alone! Elrond and Saruman join the fight and Galadriel brings our sleeping beauty Gandalf back to life with a kiss (a chaste one, on the forehead), and then Radagast rides in with the Rhogobel rabbits ("NO RABBITS NO!" said Nogrod, who was sitting next to me) and takes Gandalf to safety. The Nine reappear, accompanied by a fiery creature that looks very much like the outline of Sauron's armour and says that the time of the elves is over and the time of the orcs has come. Luckily we have Ring-a-dong-Galadriello! She banishes the Necromancer with very Tom Bombadilesque lines, and Saruman concludes that everything is well in the realm again. And here I thought the Three didn't reveal themselves to Sauron!

What I liked about this film was that the dialogue was more canonical than in the first two films. The book quotes were music to my ears. Not just because they were familiar but because they were vastly better than PJ's lines ("Is it peace you will have? Or war?"; "These bats were bred for one purpose - war" etc; for some reason the worst lines were in the trailer!) - we all know he's not at his best portraying anything that happens inside the brain, thinking included.

The dawn after the destruction of Laketown was also done beautifully, I think - the loss was visually there. I found the way Bard assumed command (or rather, was given it) a little awkward but then, you can't have all. Alfrid, the old Master's Mini-Gríma, obviously changed sides to bow to a new lord (and slept through an elf army marching in on his first watch). I liked Bard's talk with Thorin at the gates of Erebor.

Meanwhile (after a sad parting from Kili) Legolas and Tauriel ride double to Mount Gundabad (why?) to observe a gathering of orcs and the afore mentioned bats bred for one purpose. We learn that Legolas's mother died there and Thranduil never got over it! Exciting! We also learn that the orcs have employed "the great earth eaters" which I jokingly said must be were-worms and lo and behold if that isn't exactly what they were!

We hear that Sauron wants the Mountain for its strategic position. Can somebody better educated in the arts of war tell me what good is the Lonely Mountain to any strategy?

There's also this very weird thing going on between Thorin and Bilbo. We know Thorin makes love to everyone with his eyes so Bilbo isn't special (even if our friend said "There's more staring in this film than in the Bold and the Beautiful!"), but Bilbo, what's this? Here are some quotes:

Thorin... I...

To me, Thorin was... He was... Never mind.

(in answer to "Who is this Thorin Oakenshield?" - He was.......... a friend.

Yes Bilbo, if I were in your shoes I'd also be confused about what Thorin meant to me, but what's this queer baiting?

I liked the scene where Bilbo takes the Arkenstone to Bard, Thranduil and Gandalf. The dialogue was fairly canonical, and there were some lovely facial expressions there. Similarly when Thorin hears of Bilbo's betrayal, that was nicely done. Also "Faithless woodland sprite!" is a funny line.

We're now about an hour and a half into the film, and Dáin arrives riding on a pig and the battle commences. He's portrayed as crazy ("crazier than Thorin") but I admit I quite liked the little we saw him (although I'm not sure "These bastards need a good hammering!" is something I expected to hear).

Then the orcs (Azog's forces, that is) arrive unannounced (having their way conveniently eaten for them by the wereworms). The dwarves, bless them, are the first to attack them, and I felt a little surge in my heart watching them get into battle formation. There is something very exhilarating about seeing this army of stout little killer tanks. Dwarves ♥
The elves join the battle - by jumping over the dwarves' backs!

Here it gets a little muddy. The orcs have something akin to siege towers and catapults and they're incredibly well trained and armed, much better than even the Uruk-hai! What I'm wondering though is, why didn't they have any of those mûmak sized trolls in the War of the Ring? Those giant kamikaze trolls that use their head as a battering ram even if it means their death, that is. Again, Bard is a doting father whose main aim is to save his children, to the extent that he rides a cart down very steep steps (causing an exasperated Nogrod to blurt out "Where do all these video game scenes come from!?")

I should mention that all this while, Thorin has been plagued by the dragon sickness and he has been quite mean and distrustful. This is shown in his voice starting to echo like Smaug's. Then good old Dwalin walks up to him and says a few well chosen words about his state of mind. Thorin walks on a golden floor and ponders all this until he realises what a fool he has been (complete with a very trippy scene where he imagines the floor melting and swallowing him up), and when the Company are about to lose their hope, he comes out of a bright light as a Messiah like figure and says they won't let others fight their battle for them.

This is when Bolg's army arrives unless I'm mistaken, and the dwarves charge them in a nice spearhead with Thorin & Company in the van. Dáin and Thorin meet briefly on the battlefield and that's nice. Then Thorin figures the way to end it is to kill Azog, who's positioned on Ravenhill. God knows where he, Dwalin, Fili and Kili find goats, but they do ride goats up the hill. Alas it's a trap, but Thorin doesn't realise it until he's sent Fili and Kili to scout a tower! Bolg(?) holds Fili up for Thorin to see and then stabs him and drops him down straight in front of Kili. Poor Kili. He gets very angry and goes on a killing spree. Now I don't know if this is Bolg or somebody else he's fighting, but Tauriel comes to his aid and then gets in trouble herself. Now Kili comes for her and they take turns in getting battered until the orc who may or may not be Bolg kills Kili. Now this is what I'm very upset about. Kili dies defending Tauriel shield and body. This is not okay (although not hard to guess).

Legolas then takes Bolg down in a prolonged fighting scene where he hitches a ride with a bat, uses pretty much all his weapons, and defies gravity by jumping up falling rocks as if they were stairs.

Back to Ravenhill. Bilbo has used the ring to get there, invisible, and is in fact knocked out by a rock. Meanwhile Thorin fights Azog on thin ice and eventually manages to push him into the icy water (mainly because he was distracted by the eagles who came without Mothrandir or the typical music and who brought Radagast, and Beorn who jumped down and transformed mid-flight only to be shown for two seconds). Here we get what's probably the dumbest scene in the entire film - the pale orc floating under the ice, pretending to die and then pinning Thorin's foot through the ice with his utensil which is now a knife instead of fork and (again defying gravity) jumping up through the ice to kill Thorin, who in turn pierces Azog with his sword. We get a very intimate scene with the two enemies lying on each other and staring at each other longingly (this was your last chance to say "I love you" but you didn't, too bad) until Azog dies and Thorin gets up and walks to the end of the precipice to look at the sun and the eagles before collapsing.
I was hoping against hope they'd retain a shred of canon and let Dáin kill Azog, but in vain.

Bilbo gets up and their last talk is beautiful and similar to the book.

The rest of the dwarves grieve over Thorin's body and Gandalf sits down with Bilbo and is unintentionally comical by consistently failing to light his pipe.

Okay I lied when I said the Floating Orc Under the Ice was the most ridiculous thing. It was this. After the battle Legolas says he can't go back (whatever that means). Thranduil tells him to go north and find the Dúnedain, find a young one they call Strider, whose father was Arathorn, and to find out his true name. Considering Aragorn is 10 years old at the time the Hobbit took place, I find it very curious indeed Thranduil would tell Legolas to seek him out. What's also curious is, he was given the name Strider by the people of Bree. I can but imagine what 10-year-old Aragorn must have done to earn that name, but I'm now sure the first thing he did after being crowned was appointing a Minister of Silly Walks.

Bilbo's departure was rushed and we see nothing about Thorin's burial (or the Arkenstone) or about Dáin becoming King under the Mountain. I expect it will all be in the extended edition because there really is a feeling of something being left out. Weird, considering the film was only two and a half hours. It was sad to see the Company gathered together at the end - my eyes went automatically searching for the hot dwarves before I realised they were dead. They were the main reason I went to see the film in the first place.

Bilbo's return to the Shire and the auction at Bag End was, however, included - even to the extent of him taking his silver spoons back from Lobelia! That was nice.

And then the film cuts straight into the Fellowship of the Ring.

All in all this film didn't disappoint me, mostly because I expected it to be worse and I'd already dealt with the major trauma of the crappiest fanfiction crap in the first two movies. It could've been a good film if PJ hadn't insisted on adding so much of his own stuff, but even as it is, I think it's definitely better than the Desolation and somewhat better than AUJ.

Not looking forward to the 21-hour marathons though, especially as all the more epic stuff happens during the first half.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think Smaug's death was alright but what I don't understand is, why not do it in the second film rather than giving 10 minutes for it in this on?

Leaving the rest of the plot untouched, how much better would the second movie (and the third) have been if instead of the ridiculous dragon chasing scenes the second movie had just done the sequence as Tolkien wrote it and then they would have had time to include Smaug's death in the second film, providing a much more satisfying ending to the second movie and removing the need for an essentially wasted sequence at the beginning of the third.

Leaving aside everything else, the examples of bad film-making technique...it just revolts me that such shoddy work should be fabulously rewarded the way it is.

I guess if there is any sort of silver lining in all this (trying to be positive and all), the magic of Tolkien's name is so strong that one can literally just fling poop up on the screen and attach Tolkien's name and it will sell well.

Not that this is a desirable outcome.

edit

I will never understand why they didn't end movie 1 with the death of Azog and movie 2 with the death of Smaug but instead everything had to happen in the last film. That about summarizes how good screenplays all the three were.

Basically, what Thinlómien says.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Lommi, the entertainment value sounds like the annual tradition of watching the Eurovision Song Contest to bash most of the entries! I really wish I had someone like you guys to watch with - I'll be alone amongst strangers tonight...

[Thinlómien]

Seriously Legate and Greenie I laughed aloud at your reviews. Now here's my list of pluses and minuses:

+ the canon scenes: the Arkenstone/ bargaining business (including Bilbo's night visit), Thorin's death, the auction
+ the very ending: nice transition to the LotR movies, done more innovatively/subtly than I thought they would
+ sometimes the movie had some kind of psychotic charm to it and was very entertaining
+ some panoramas (dying Smaug falling, Laketown refugees the morning after, even some of the battle scenes) were very beautiful, basically like Alan Lee (or John Howe) paintings
+ sorry but I actually liked the Thorin/Bilbo romance, I dare argue it veered from the territory of queerbaiting to actual representation
+ Bilbo/ Martin Freeman in general
+ Balin made every scene he was in about 200% better
+ sad hot dad Bard and his epic moments
+ the little we saw of Dáin was much less of a joke than I dared hope
+ despite the ridiculous under ice floating and other length issues, I sort of liked Thorin vs Azog
+ Dáin calling Thranduil a sprite
+ cute Galadriel and Elrond!

- the cheap drug trip visuals (Sauron the Pyromancer, green Galadriel, Thorin's trip into the yellow abyss)
- the music (really boring apart from a couple of nice runs of the Laketown theme, I suspect they killed Howard Shore's inspiration)
- the generally stupid Grimafrid ruining what could've been a cool feminist moment, Bard's squeamish daughters vs his brave son
- the silly-looking monsters (including the massive wereworms who had about 30 seconds of screentime)
- the sheer volumes of the battles - did you know that there are about 200,000 golden-armoured Elf warriors lurking in Mirkwood? neither did I
- speaking of which, the scale of everything makes LotR seem like a joke
- both Smaug's death and the White Council stuff seemed really removed from everything else
- seriously they should have cut Beorn if they only wanted to give him 2min of screentime in DOS and 2s in BOTFA
- Tauriel and Kili (even though the actors did their best!)
- Thranduil (a really despicable guy, and not really even in the spirit of the books)
- Legolas's stunts - imo Legolas was much more fun in the previous movie
- Legolas's quest to find Aragorn (what the actual ???), oh and btw apparently his mother died in on a campaign against Gundabad???
- Thorin's dragooon sickneeessss ("GOLD!" - he was like the baddie in Disney's Pocahontas)
- Fili and Kili's deaths - seriously, how did they manage to botch the emotional impact of them so bad?? they didn't feel like anything to me

I'm pretty sure I forgot something but I'll tell you when I remember.

PS.

Originally Posted by Esty

Lommi, the entertainment value sounds like the annual tradition of watching the Eurovision Song Contest to bash most of the entries! I really wish I had someone like you guys to watch with - I'll be alone amongst strangers tonight...

It was a very similar experience to be honest! I think the best part was Volo laughing uncontrollably when Kili died, but fortunately it sounded a lot like crying so he maybe didn't ruin any fangirl's evening. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the movie nonetheless!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I just got back home from the theatre, and I'm not yet sure what to say. I found the impressions to be overwhelming in a negative way - too much food for the eyes, not enough time to digest it. A few first thoughts:

I saw the movie in my local theatre - the seaside resort town I live in is very small and sleepy during the winter months, so there were only five people viewing the film on this weekday evening! That doesn't make for much atmosphere, but it also doesn't make for distraction. Here in Germany, all movies are translated and dubbed, so I didn't hear the original voices and dialogues, which is always a loss.

There were too many things going on and I think there are a number of loose threads that need to be taken care of in the extended version. For example, what happens to Alfrid (and his golden bosom )?!

My supply of willing suspension of disbelief (of which I do have a considerable amount!) was completely used up: by the absolutely overwhelming number of enemies who were still kept in check by the good guys, for example; by Legolas' gravity-defying stunts; by Bard's leading his people from the mild lakeside to higher snowy ground looking for shelter from the cold - and why on earth is an old city called "Dale" on the mountainside?!

Some elements (like the Dwarven/Elven romance) I could have accepted in an original story by someone else, but not in an adaptation of Tolkien's book.

The drawn-out battle scenes - I found myself wishing I could be knocked out like Bilbo and wake up when it was all over! It was all just too much.

Thorin's characterisation I did not like.

Martin Freeman's Bilbo was very good.

Why did it take evil Galadriel to banish evil Sauron?

Would a good leader of his people like Bard allow himself to be constantly distracted by his concern for his own family?

What was it about the Eagles that turned the tide of battle?

So many questions, so few good answers...

One more thing: the ending with Bilbo coming back to his ravished home was very bittersweet. It felt like a substitute for the scouring which was not included in LotR - returning to the place you think
is safe, and finding it taken apart.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Why did it take evil Galadriel to banish evil Sauron?

Well, you can't just have a good person be victorious! Evil people have to win!

Originally Posted by Esty

What was it about the Eagles that turned the tide of battle?

They didn't want to discourage all the memes popping up.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

One more detail occurs to me - the Arkenstone doesn't look like what was described in the book:

It was like a globe with a thousand facets; it shone like silver in the firelight, like water in the sun, like snow under the stars, like rain upon the Moon!

The stone used in the movie looks like a rather flat, not quite regular shape, and it has the appearance of an opal, with various colours. No globe, no facets. Tolkien's description sounds like a diamond solitaire, albeit an unusually large one. There is no mention of intrinsic colour, just splintered light. The stone Bilbo finds in the book also seems to be larger than the one in the movie - Tolkien says his hand would not close around it. The film prop gem seems rather anticlimactic to me - I expected something more spectacular.

Edit to add one more question: Has anyone seen a PJ cameo in this movie?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Would a good leader of his people like Bard allow himself to be constantly distracted by his concern for his own family?

That's a very good point I forgot to mention. That is the thing which very often happens in all kinds of films and does not really make much sense.

What was it about the Eagles that turned the tide of battle?

Actually, I think that was shown. I believe there were a few shots of a single eagle landing in a row of cca 300 Orcs and killing half of them just by sweeping by.

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Edit to add one more question: Has anyone seen a PJ cameo in this movie?

I haven't and I had been expecting it there. I noticed, however, several peculiarly specific zooms at a couple of people - most of all (several times) some guy in a red hat (which I thought at first was just a modern-world winter hat and that's what puzzled me originally) being sort of second-next to Bard when leading the charage against the Orcs inside the city. Any ideas, might that be PJ's son, protegé, some other screenwriter, fan who got lucky, something?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Esty

Would a good leader of his people like Bard allow himself to be constantly distracted by his concern for his own family?

I'd say getting distracted despite trying not to would be humane (and therefore, risking your own life to save them even if the battle morale and thus the fate of your people depend on you personally), but I do remember my eyebrows moving quite high when he gives the order to go to the marketplace (where his children had reputedly last been seen) which is supposed to be swarming with the heavily armed orcs, thereby leading dozens of men on a suicide mission to rescue his children, who may or may not be there - and I didn't really hear him asking if the guys want to come along. Then again, maybe this is supposed to be a character flaw??

I feel like an averagely written blockbuster would have had him declare "I don't care the marketplace is full of orcs, I will go there and find my children!" and a bunch of foolhardy loyal guys be like "We will come with you, King Bard!" That way, it would have been at least their own decision to risk their lives for Bard's children, but I think PJ & co didn't give this a single thought.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

In any case, it's not necessarily uncanonical that Bilbo had feelings for Thorin - after all, he was referred to as queer more than once in the books!

Thanks for making me crack up again! But yeah, honestly it did seem like a romance in this movie. Like, I don't think Thorin is like a hyper special person for Bilbo in the book, like obviously Bilbo is fond of him (and he displays no similar grief for Fili and Kili) but I feel like his heartbreak is also largely because of what Thorin symbolised, at a sad end for the adventure, as the King who never reclaimed his throne. As the leader, Thorin was some kind of personification of the adventure, too.

While in the movie, it is obviously Bilbo's personal feelings for Thorin as a person that motivate his actions (like giving the Arkenstone away so it couldn't corrupt Thorin) and his grief (don't tell me the "you can't be dead" stunt isn't something normally reserved for lovers and close family members). Not to mention that in the end of the movie it is Thorin as a person that Bilbo grieves, not all the dead dwarves and people nor the fact that the adventure ended in a bloodbath. They keep underlining Thorin's significance as a person to Bilbo way too much.

As for Thorin's feelings for Bilbo, seriously look at Richard Armitage's face in any scene they are in together. If he's not acting being in love, I don't know what he's doing. (His smile for Bilbo is like entirely different than the one he has for his dear nephews or Balin and Dwalin. He literally glows and looks like he might swoon any minute. Seriously.) Also, when Thorin is having his drug trippy dragon sickness episode, it's not his own words or Dwalin's (or his nephews' or Balin's) that make him struggle free from the all consuming greed, it's Bilbo's voice berating him.

This movie totally passes my gaydar test, which is basically: if the main characters were a male and a female, would the audience assume without a question that they were in love? Like totally yes in this case.