Tol-in-Guarhoth CIX - Ten Year Anniversary Game: Dead Thread

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Heh heh, well of course you think he isn't since he called you a Wolf.

Who is the Seer, then? Boro? (dreams possibly Rikae, Shasta, Lommy, Legate)

If you check me toNight you'll agree with me. I know you can't trust me yet, but working from an assumption that Legate is the Seer is a waste of your time and I'd feel guilty not warning you about it.

As for who is the Seer - Boro is a possibility, to be sure, it would also explain why he's been a bit quieter and more cautious than usual. I'm still curious about Sally, but some things don't really add up whether she's a seer or a wolf or a very confused ordo. That's pretty much all I have though, I'm fairly sure morm is innocent but I didn't pick any Seer vibes from him. I'd have to reread to get a better idea.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I might've actually been able to spot you as a Hunter if it weren't for the fact that I'm unsuited for such a role

Come on isn't it enough to start the game by saying I'm not going to the Dead thread alone and killing me has actual consequences? (I left it there in case I died at night along with somebody else.) Other than that I just wanted to get myself killed, even if not the way it actually happened. Which, again, was partly my own fault because I knew what Lommy said wasn't worth overreacting but did it nonetheless. But still, I still think there's something very fishy there.

And really the fact they didn't gun for you- that makes me worried about the village, because the Rune kill just didn't make any sense to me. Basically, I'm worried that the Seer will hide quite well but will be killed nonetheless because the pack won't make a logical kill, if you follow...

I'm curious about tonight's kills. From last night it looks like we have a pack who wants to play it safe, and a pack who is kind of random, but the fact that we don't know their choice means it's difficult to tell, and they might even use their kills to try to frame each other (or individual players).

I hunted Mac last NIGHT (if you're curious, it was sally on NIGHT 1 out of principle, and Lommy on DAY 1), but the main reason I changed it (and voted for Greenie instead of him) was that Rikae was feeling better about him - and me. I'm far from certain but they're (if somebody prefers gender-neutral pronouns it's basic human decency to comply) my likeliest seer suspect (without actually having looked at all their posts with this in mind). I might be biased though just because we've shared a lot of suspects in this game and are quite similar players.

Heh, I love playing werewolf and talking openly about potential seer - rather than wolf - suspects.

[Aganzir]

Greenie seems a more likely wolf to me, but I feel knowing Nog's role for sure would tell us more about other people.

Fewer people said anything definite about her than about him (and let's be honest we don't need to find out more about Legate just yet), so knowing what he is will give us more leads. However, if we use the night to check Nog, I'm worried he'll turn out innocent (we have a history of disagreeing strongly even when innocent), while Greenie could very well be a sneaky wolf who's redoubled her efforts at sneakiness after coming here.

So I'm still not sure.

[the phantom]

Green- looking back at my Day 1 markings I gave her equal checks and pluses for liking her and disliking her, so I don't have a strong opinion on her.

For those that know her better- what do you think of the way she entered the thread. I mean, there were several attitudes she could have taken. For instance-

"Darn it, Agan! Why didn't you reveal and save us, now we're two innocents down!"

But instead she just says hello and starts talking about Sally. Is that a normal reaction?

[the phantom]

Just a funny thought- I dreamt that the WWs and village continued always killing the noisiest folks, Rikae, Boro, Mac, etc... So that the second half of the game was fewer pages than the first day, ha ha. It reminded me of the Downer article where LMP proposed a quiet Werewolf game wherein players would get modfired if they participated too much.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I quickly looked through some of Greenie's posts and some of the points made against her, and so far she is the person here I most inclined to think a wolf. It is a bit odd, because I don’t normally suspect people that I agree with, and I do find myself agreeing with her most of the time.

Of course one has a tendency to notice what other people are saying, and Greenie’s view of my death, and her doubts about Sally’s theory are the same. Just to give an example.

However, there is something about her interactions with other players, and her small comments that doesn’t sit right. Legate made a point of her posts having a “fishy tone” and her giving people “nudges” or something like that... Correct me if I am wrong. I myself found her interaction with Nogrod on Day 1 slightly unsettling.

So yeah, I would quite like clarity about her allegiance.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

For those that know her better- what do you think of the way she entered the thread. I mean, there were several attitudes she could have taken. For instance-

"Darn it, Agan! Why didn't you reveal and save us, now we're two innocents down!"

But instead she just says hello and starts talking about Sally. Is that a normal reaction?

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I quickly looked through some of Greenie's posts and some of the points made against her, and so far she is the person here I most inclined to think a wolf. It is a bit odd, because I don’t normally suspect people that I agree with, and I do find myself agreeing with her most of the time.

I've been reading through this thread and Nog is looking more and more innocent to me. We have our differing views and disagreements, but he's said or done nothing that actually looks evil or foul or opportunistic to me.

As to what phantom spotted - that's curious. It could be that getting sudden proof of my innocence chagrined her enough not to complain, but. She's also being awfully nice and cooperative. It can obviously be genuine, but... I think I'll also feel better about checking her.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I quickly looked through some of Greenie's posts and some of the points made against her, and so far she is the person here I most inclined to think a wolf. It is a bit odd, because I don’t normally suspect people that I agree with, and I do find myself agreeing with her most of the time.

If you have been checking Greenie's posts lately, could you tell us is there a lot of interaction with other players - suspicions or trust, vote-placements etc.?

I mean we need to think which information would be important or helpful - and that should lead our decision on whom to check.

Originally Posted by Agan

NOGROD you're such a tease! Now I'm sad this didn't happen.

I must admit I'm too, well a little bit, as I seem to be in need of correcting some of my earlier assumptions. Though it sure would have been phenomenal if I could have deduced one wolfpack on D2 just by myself - so no surprise there I was wrong.

But I'm a bit worried about the phantom - Boro -connection still, fex. this tp spotting the three times FBI -thingy. I mean yes tp is a sharp player but that is just, well phenomenally superb spotting - but understandable if it was pre-orchestrated and meant to be used in times of need.

Also the fact that tp is ready to offer a real fight against us checking him, and not only with overboosted self-confidence but also with relatively bad arguments for his level of the game makes me a bit troubled - and at the same time Boro is making it his top-priority in the living thread to hammer in that we here in the Dead Thread should not even think of checking tp (I mean it was bit overdone to use several posts just underlining that point - something a normal innocent would probably waste less energy on and would concentrate more on finding a good lynch-candidate).

And yes, I am worried about tp using the decisive power if we don't know his alignment. If we knew he is innocent I'd be glad to leave the last minute decisions to him as I know he's very good in this game - but if I think such a mastermind is driving our effect on the game while we others sleep - well I'd hate that.

Surely we'll get new people here every Day and Night and another American must die sooner or later and even things out - but I'd say it would be good for them to know as well where tp is coming aka. whether to listen to his pretty dominating presence or just ignore him.

I mean let's not forget that knowing tp is innocent would be an asset indeed. I'd love to play knowing I can trust him to play on our side.


That said, if you still think I'm the one you wish to check, be my guest.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Agan

I did see it and it made me laugh - after all I like dwarves, even if Tyrion Lannister has never been my particular favourite.

Aww... Tyrion is who I got on the personality match thingummy on Facebook.

Originally Posted by Agan

Many seemed to think all you'd do is fight

Ha ha, yes. But we have a mastery of fighting without fighting, if you follow...

Also, if we examine Green, are you prepared for the consequences if the's innocent/guilty? Guilty perhaps makes Legate and Rikae look good for voting her, or guilty for destroying the opposing pack, for instance.

With Nog it could implicate Sally and others, or clear them. I mean, is it even a factor considering Wolf-on-Wolf isn't really a thing this game seeing as they don't know one another?

Any clues as to what most Living will be keen to see? They want to see Nog because he was a lynch, and his lynch competition is a known Gifted? Or they want to see Green because the known Gifted killed her? Really I'm content to let Agan call this shot since she's the one you folks can't claim you don't trust.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Heh, I love playing werewolf and talking openly about potential seer - rather than wolf - suspects.

It's a major part of the fun being in the dead thread - you can talk openly about anything and everything - and you do not need to fear being kicked out of the game whatever you say (and quite astonishingly that's probably also one reason why people tend to act pretty civil in here!)

I just hope all the people gave more arguments why they think X or Y should be checked.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I just hope all the people gave more arguments why they think X or Y should be checked.

All people meaning whom? Because I've been mostly happy with everybody's arguments, except maybe yours - you're completely obsessed with the phantom and don't want to hear things that point at his innocence.

Anyway,

++Greenie

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

All people meaning whom? Because I've been mostly happy with everybody's arguments, except maybe yours - you're completely obsessed with the phantom and don't want to hear things that point at his innocence.

It would be a major offence to the phantom's capabilities as a player if one should at large deem him automatically innocent just because he hasn't done anything that clearly incriminates him!

"Oh, the phantom looks innocent -well naturally that means he is one because as we all know he's such a lousy player he couldn't pull out even a minor trick, not to say he would be able to convince anyone contrary to his role. He's such an easy one to see through!"

You can't be serious Agan. Things "pointing at his innocence" should really be taken with a pinch, no a tablespoon of salt.

And I also think it would be very good to know his alignment for the future of this Dead Thread and whether we can operate succesfully. I mean it does make a difference whether you know he's on your side or not - mind you, also knowing he is an innocent would be a big deal to know. Not so much to the living perhaps, but to us here. If we wish to have things in any kind of order here I think tp is the key to that.

But as I've said, I'm still open for checking Greenie and will be okay with you checking me (even if I don't suggest it as the value of that information would be smallish - and of coure because I know it already so it doesn't help me).

The main thing being we check someone and not end up in a tie of any sort.

[A Little Green]

If you guys want to check me feel free to do so, though I think checking Nog has the potential of telling us more. Anyway it's nearing bedtime for me so

++ Nogrod

[Nogrod]

If the phantom is a wolf, you Greenie just gave him the keys to make sure we do not check him.

Just saying.

(Will be off for a while but come back in time to vote.)

[Aganzir]

I'm reading Mr FBI's posts. Things that might imply he's the seer:

• Talks about the Seer incessantly on DAY 1. I don't know if this means anything, but always says Seer, never uses a personal pronoun.
• How is this what happened? Did he a) spot my hints and think the phantom was trying to protect me, b) count on phantom spotting the FBI, c) see another possible gifted hint that we haven't talked about?

  When he's an ordo, if he thinks he knows who is gifted he'll hang a large "KILL ME" sign and in that way try to protect the gifteds from the wolf-kill. That's pretty much what happened yesterday.

• Explicitly says "I don't think they were the Seer" about: phantom, Rune, Nog

And I may be reading too much into everything that's about me, but his poetic "You're a goner, tip your hat" post to me - and bringing up our old dance - looked like there was more to it between the lines. Before I think about this further? Because it happens that he's the seer who dreamed of me, this could be interpreted as giving me the green light for a false seer reveal. (Under other circumstances I would definitely have done a false gifted reveal to attract the wolves rather than the lynch mob, but this extent of sleep deprivation seriously impairs my reasoning and judgement.)

Potentially interesting quotes if Boro is the seer:

• The most likely wolf, of the 3 dead, I think is Nogrod and I would love for the Dead to check him tonight, but that's choice isn't up to me.

• I saw Lommy's side of the argument with Agan, so that made me suspicious of Agan

• It was Morm who first pointed out Agan's slip, and Lommy went with Agan's reaction to morm as the most suspicious thing she found on Day 1. So, I think it would implicate morm more as a possible pack mate than Lommy. (That is, mormwolf trying to point something out and be helpful, but not expecting much to come of it)

[the phantom]

If Rune votes Green then it's settled on her. If Rune votes Nog then Nog will probably vote Green and then it would be in my hands.

So why are you holding out, Nog? Are you seriously hoping to convince Rune to check me?

Anyway, I'm still suspicious of Nog's behavior, but for the sake of trusting the Hunter, to make the decision an easy one for Rune, and giving the village the result they are most likely to ask for, I'm going to vote-

++Little Green

Whatever you do, Rune, do not vote for Nog, because then he could just leave the score tied and give us no result if he wanted. Also don't vote for yourself, Agan, or me because then Nog could forge a tie that way.

[the phantom]

What I'm saying here is, any vote other than for Green could result in Nog robbing us of our ability.

[the phantom]

Agan, I don't think I asked you directly--

Did you ever suspect that Nog, like Boro and I, totally had an eye on your possible Giftedness on Day 1 and chose to vote for you because he saw an opportunity to knock off a Gifted?

[the phantom]

DAY ONE VOTING

Nilp -> Nilp
Rune -> Formendacil
Mormegil -> Macalaure
Lalaith -> Legate
Kath -> Formendacil 2
Aganzir -> Lommy
Lommy -> Aganzir
Legate -> A Little Green
Nogrod -> Aganzir 2
Form -> Form 3
Mith -> Agan 3
McCaber -> Agan 4
Firefoot -> Gwath
Boro -> Nog
Rikae -> Lommy 2
Mac -> Agan 5
TP -> Nog 2
Lottie -> Nog 3
Eomer -> Nog 4
Shasta -> Nog 5
Sally -> Nog 6

DAY TWO VOTING

Lottie -> morm
Nerwen -> Mac
Greenie -> Agan
Lalaith -> Agan 2
Lommy -> Agan 3
Legate -> Green
Caber -> Agan 4
morm -> Mac 2
Agan -> Green 2
Mac -> Agan 5
Firefoot -> Mac 3
Nilp -> Agan 6
Mith -> Rikae
Rikae -> Green 3
Eomer -> Agan 7
Boro -> Agan 8
Shasta -> Lottie

The following can (tentatively) NOT be grouped as Wolves together--

Kath & Form
Rikae & Lommy
Lottie & Nog
Eomer & Nog
Shasta & Nog
Sally & Nog
Morm & Mac
Firefoot & Mac
Legate & Green

That isn't much for now, but we can build on this list every day, and it might be helpful for finding a pack down the road. As someone pointed out, killing off an entire pack would be quite beneficial because it would reduce the Night kills.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Phantom

You may want to check me, you may feel better checking me, but talking about it like it's something we're really going to do is, I insist, very suspicious.

Come on, it is not that suspicious. It is a very normal response to a pompous speech. Your points for not wanting to get checked might be valid, but the form in which they were presented was always likely to get a response. I get that it is part of your persona to make bombastic statements, on almost comical level, but surely you are aware of the influence categorical statements have on people.

Phantom says something megalomaniacal, Greenie retorts by pointing out that he is feeble compared to a collective decision and would be powerless to stop one.

To me this seems to be ordinary stuff, done by the book.