What Powered The Three?

[Ivriniel]

Hello there posters and readers.

@Pitchwife hail Pitwife. May the drommond's granite masts and sails bear thee far from home and safely to return.

Thank you for the interesting materials. Sauron's will for domination was somehow echoed in the Ringspell, with much of his native power poured into the Ring. Some tie of sentience, or presence of Sauron's evil will was permanently present in the Ring, and certainly, the Ring had great power to influence, corrupt and enslave.

The Ring's measure in that regard needed to exceed that of the [is it combined power] of each Elf and her/his Elven wielders? Was it the Fea or the Lorewise-ness of individual Elves that was part of the base 'threshold' level Sauron needed to exceed? And did each Ring add to that measure of critical difference. The Elves took off their Rings when the echoes of the Ringspell were discerned, and Sauron was able to -- was it perceive only? the minds of the wielders of the Three when they wore their Rings.

@Angisil - great to see you. interesting point about non-linear depletions. Shadowfax. It's interesting that The Silmarils did not deplete Feanor, even though they were assays he could not replicate again in a second creation. I wonder, then does this mean that Celebrimbor's assays were his equivalent to one-off feats of mastery? Celebrimbor also made the headache-jewel, the Elessar. Like the Three, (in one version of the Gem) it made things green and young in Beleriand where it was stored.

@Wiliam

Hey there - interesting materials. Thank you for the quotes too. Preservation is some feature of the Three, though exactly what that means, is implied and stated, but in different ways in the mythology. You point out that Narya we see 'kindling hearts to courage', put as the Ring of Fire. Gandalf described himself as "Keeper of the Secret Fire", although I was never sure if he meant that in the context of Narya or not. Preservation through, perhaps resistance to domination, because of instilled courage. Nenya - the Ring of Adamant and the Ring of air - and that's a very interesting idea about the meeting of the flowing Silverlode and Anduin as premise for power. Adamant always seemed to imply 'hardness' or 'steadfastness', which seems to imply a preservation power about holding and sustaining, which certainly is consistent with Time Stop idea about Lorien. Vilya - water - blue stone of sapphire I presume, and considered "mightiest" of the three, and presumably, Elrond's power to heal was implicated in the Ring. Even though it seemed to influence the waters of the Bruinen as well.

@Zigur - you raise an interesting point about what it was that Cirdan mentioned to Gandalf. What was Idle about its placement in Mithlond? Presumably use of a Ring 'announces' location or presence of the wielder. I suspect that the Three also acted in synergy. That is Preservation as each wielder acted in concert in some unified capacity.

@Inziladun - I wonder why the Ring of Fire went to a water harbour. It's such a contrast isn't it.

@Belegorn - Hello there. I think you might be onto something. I have been withholding ideas about power and the 'essence of creation' and the Rings somehow as conduits of Ea that imbues materialism, and spiritualism.

Back Later

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

The Ring's measure in that regard needed to exceed that of the [is it combined power] of each Elf and her/his Elven wielders? Was it the Fea or the Lorewise-ness of individual Elves that was part of the base 'threshold' level Sauron needed to exceed? And did each Ring add to that measure of critical difference. The Elves took off their Rings when the echoes of the Ringspell were discerned, and Sauron was able to -- was it perceive only? the minds of the wielders of the Three when they wore their Rings.

See, I'm not sure this is a question of exceeding a given power level. If we must needs use technological metaphors I'd suggest a different angle: I imagine that the art of Ring-making as Sauron taught it to the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, the 'blueprint' for making Rings of Power, included from the beginning (unbeknownst to them) a hidden 'interface' in every ring that left it open to access from outside, and that the One was designed to access these interfaces and thus allow Sauron to hijack the other Rings and hack their functions. In other words, did the One rule the others because of its exceeding power, or because it and they had been specially designed for the purpose? If the latter, it all boils down to the difference in power between Sauron and whoever held the other Ring.

Zil and Zig (), my soul's ease doesn't depend on whether each of the Three had unique powers or properties or not, but I feel kind of vindicated by William's Letter quote. I half remembered discussing this in some forgotten thread which I managed to unearth today: Elven Rings in the 1st Age. The discussion there may be of some interest to anybody interested in Ring-Lore in general and the Three especially, as may the thread about Nenya and the Headache Jewel I linked in my post.

Anyway, here's what I thought back in 2009:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife as a young, eager and diligent wight who hadn't yet learned to space his paragraphs

Vilya was the Ring of Air, Nenya the Ring of Water. If any of the Three gave its wielder special power over water, it would have been Nenya, not Vilya.
But this leads me to another question. This thread, and the one about Nenya and the Elessar, have made me think a bit about the specific virtues of the Three, in other words the nature of the power each of them conferred on its wielder.
Each of the three is named after one of three elements - Air, Water, and Fire; at first glance, this looks like they gave their wielders power over the respective elements. Now Gandalf, who had Narya, certainly showed exceptional skill in the handling of fire (fireworks, naur an edraith ammen, wielder of the Flame of Anor etc.), but being an incarnate Maiar, he certainly didn't depend on a Ring for this; as for Elrond and Galadriel, I don't see them controlling Air and Water in any obvious way. So what does it mean?
In esoteric thought, the four elements are associated with different faculties of the human mind/soul. Applying these associations to the Three Rings, we get:
Vilya - Air - reason. The chief role of Elrond in LotR and The Hobbit (apart from his being a great healer) is offering counsel, giving advice to others based on his wisdom and knowledge.
Narya - Fire - will and passion. This is the most obvious correspondance: Círdan gave Narya to Gandalf 'for the kindling of all hearts with courage', to strengthen their hope and determination to oppose Sauron.
Nenya - Water - emotion, intuition, the subconscious. This is the least obvious, but (to me at least) it somehow resonates with Galadriel's love and yearning for timeless beauty, as well as the scrying power of her mirror.
I'm not saying any of this was on Tolkien's conscious mind, but it seems to fit, and it may be worth considering if we speculate what use 1st age elves might have made of the Three.

What d'ya think?

[Belegorn]

I think the Elven Rings were made to arrest time, to bring Aman to Middle-earth as was Sauron's pitch to the Elves. In the First Age the Elves generally left Aman for empire in Middle-earth, to establish themselves there and be the rulers. The cessation of the effects of time may have been more important to those who had lived in the Undying Lands which probably accounts for the Rings coming from that people, the Noldor.

I would say the One ruled the others because of its exceeding power and due to the design taught by Sauron to them. I think this common design was the means by which Sauron could link his Ring to the others. Otherwise it'd have been a seperate type of Ring with the same powers, but the bearer could not extend his will from the One to the others.

Originally Posted by Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring; for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency;

[Zigûr]

I think the "thing of surpassing potency" description of the Ring is not mutually exclusive with the common "built-in vulnerability" theory which argues that Sauron's contribution to the Ring-lore which made the Three involved making them in a way that would be vulnerable.

It may have worked like this:
1. The built-in vulnerability aspect allowed the One to influence or control the Three and their bearers.
2. The "surpassing potency" of the One allowed the One to control the works wrought with the Three.

This, however, does not seem consistent with the notion that Sauron would not have needed the One to overthrow the defences of Lórien had he come there in person.

[Belegorn]

Tolkien mentioned in a letter that even if he was not wearing the Ring, Sauron was in rapport with its power. He would not be diminished.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

@Inziladun - I wonder why the Ring of Fire went to a water harbour. It's such a contrast isn't it.

Celebrimbor secreted the Three with the three senior Eldar of the Second Age: Gil-Galad, Galadriel and Cirdan. Maybe they chose based on color coordination- GG's shield was blue, Galadriel preferred to wear white, and red looks pretty sharp with grey.

[Mithadan]

Regarding the Silmarils, I think they were "powered" by the light of the two Trees. I do not have access to my books, but I seem to recall that in HoME, it is stated that Elvish "magic" is a function of their own nature and inherent power, so the act of creation requires that some of the maker's essence be poured into the item created. But their light had an outside source.

Regarding the Three Rings, and presumably the Seven and the Nine, some portion of their makers' essence would have been instilled into their creations. Some of Sauron's power would have been placed in the Seven and the Nine as he assisted in their creation. Some of the power of Celebrimbor and his smiths would have been placed in the Three. But the power of the Three to act may have been drawn from other sources. Pitchwife discusses their nature above and their links to the elements, air, water and fire. Their power may come from those elements to some extent.

The role of Elves in Middle Earth was, in part to heal the damage caused by Morgoth and do what they could to fix Arda Marred. They are described as being far more linked to nature and their surroundings than Men. This may have been part of the nature and purpose of the Three. Healing, preservation and staying the effects of time on their wearers and their people.

Has anyone ever considered the nature and intricacy of Sauron's plot? He spent decades or centuries instructing the Elves of Hollin and assisting them in the making of the Great Rings, with the intent to create the One in order to dominate the bearers of the various Rings and their people.