Third Dark Lord, or Melkor's Return?

[Mithadan]

This post is made at the risk of disappearing down the rabbit hole of "canonicity."

Myths Transformed is a fascinating section of HoME. It gives insight into Tolkien's creative process and his self-doubt regarding how previously well-established portions of his mythos fit within the whole as well as with the Primary World. That said, Myths Transformed must be taken with a grain of salt. Much of the material presented is speculative and their is no indication that it represents JRT's final formulation of how the Silmarillion might be rewritten despite the late date of the writings. Much of the material presented represents a significant departure from his prior conceptions and simply do not align with the Mythos. By way of examples, his "round earth" version of the history of Middle Earth leaves unexplained whether the tale of the Two Trees can be preserved (placing in doubt the origin and nature of the Silmarils themselves). The recasting of Orcs as corrupted men rather than Elves would require a significant revision of the time table of the First Age. His musings regarding whether the tales can be portrayed as a mannish (read Numenorean) distortion of Elvish legend would have significantly impacted the "believability" of the Mythos, and its presentation as a history. As commented above, the "execution" of Morgoth is inconsistent with JRRT's conceptions of the nature of the Valar and their nature.

The observation that the Prophecy of Mandos aligns with the biblical version of apocalypse is an apt observation, but draws into question Tolkien's professed dislike of allegory.

Just as another observation, the Prophecy of Mandos may also be affiliated with the very early legend of the Elvish "Faring Forth" found in Lost Tales. The relationship is not direct, but the concepts seem to potentially be linked.

[Barrel-rider]

Well, a new body would make him at least for a while unrecognizable.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Barrel-rider

Well, a new body would make him at least for a while unrecognizable.

Hmmm...Sauron may have been able to fool a few Noldor with his Annatar glam look, but the more percipient Elves figured him out, or at least got such a bad vibe as to turn him away. But if we're talking about the Valar and Maiar, I don't think Morgoth would hoodwink any of them. Besides, if I recollect correctly, I think Morgoth had expended so much of his energy into corrupting Arda that he was no longer able to disguise what he'd become.

[Inziladun]

My impression is that Morgoth's return would not be a covert occurrence. Rather, an open, defiant call to all evil beings to join him in conquering the 'pretenders' in Valinor and restoring Arda's rightful ruler to his throne.
At least that's my epic perception of it.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

My impression is that Morgoth's return would not be a covert occurrence. Rather, an open, defiant call to all evil beings to join him in conquering the 'pretenders' in Valinor and restoring Arda's rightful ruler to his throne.
At least that's my epic perception of it.

Mine as well. Given that the prophecy is all about him going around destroying heavenly bodies and invading Valinor, I always pictured him returning in dread and majesty, as he had appeared in ancient days.

[Ivriniel]

This is my favourite topic. I have taken on board the premise that the Second Prophesy of Mandos was not taken through to Tolkien's death in overt notes. I doubt, however, that he did not have something in mind. The way he was morphing the Tale of Celeborn and Galadriel, was one of his focal points right until the end.

I have two competing renditions of a Remaking and correcting the Marring of Arda


1. the standard: Feanor assists Yavanna in a repentance, gathering up the Jewells in a rekindling.

However, I've a problem. Valar cannot be slain. It's unclear what the point of Tulkas was on about. And the redemptive themes in the House of Hurin. And then there's the Orc's spirits, the Dwarves and a great deal of missing emphases about what the heck happens in the second Making.

2. By Inference. It's a Vanity Inversion theory, in the architecture of *inference*. That is the events in the standard works are seen 'from within Ea' and bound by Vanity of the Valar, Elves and Men and so, interpretations are terribly literal.

I wonder about a heart STEALTH SANCTIONED by Eru and the place of MERCY for Sauron and Melkor and a REWORING of their placement, by reinterpreting the Music of the Ainur.

I'll go into details if anyone shows interest in the materials I can cite to run a parallel view.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

(...) Much of the material presented represents a significant departure from his prior conceptions and simply do not align with the Mythos. By way of examples, his "round earth" version of the history of Middle Earth leaves unexplained whether the tale of the Two Trees can be preserved (placing in doubt the origin and nature of the Silmarils themselves).

As I read these texts, the Trees would still radiate an unsullied light, greater than that of the Sun, ultimately only preserved in the Silmarils.

His musings regarding whether the tales can be portrayed as a mannish (read Numenorean) distortion of Elvish legend would have significantly impacted the "believability" of the Mythos, and its presentation as a history.

Well, for those who haven't tracked them down, there are late texts, in general agreement about the character of Quenta Silmarillion as a mostly Mannish affair, outside of Myths Transformed too, and Tolkien had even begun publishing the "Numenorean element" in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.

"In origin a "nonsense rhyme", it is in the Rivendell version found transformed and applied, somewhat incongruously, to the High-Elvish and Numenorean legends of Erarendil."

"No. 14 also depends upon the lore of Rivendell, Elvish and Numenorean, concerning the heroic days at the end of the First Age; it seems to contain echoes of the Numenorean tale of Turin and Mim the Dwarf."

I don't see why variations due to perspective, and even a measure of purposed confusion, need be considered a weakness. I find it a strength rather, especially for the Legendarium as a whole. Of course some notions would be cast in doubt, like the "truth" of the Sun's making for example, but this notable shift in authorship and transmission allowed Tolkien to preserve the dramatic impact and beauty of ideas from his older mythology. In my opinion, Tolkien's solution falls in line with his later comments on The Drowning of Anadune (DA)...

"Contains very old version (in Adunaic) which is good -- in so far as it is just as much different (in inclusion and omission and emphasis) as would be probable in the supposed case:

A) Mannish tradition
B) Elvish tradition
C) Mixed Dunedanic tradition

"Which is good" despite that DA contains purposed confusions when compared to other traditions, including relating the Western Elves perspective that the World was always round, and an interesting slant concerning the "Straight Road". There's an art to creating a legendarium which includes diverse authorship and perspective, which can lend believability in another sense. I don't think Tolkien was going to provide two traditions of QS, and I don't think he needed to finish a more fully "Elvish" version. To my mind he could pepper QS with touches like the "Dome of Varda", which JRRT did take from Myths Transformed and inject into the Later Quenta Silmarillion proper -- he doesn't really explain the Dome in LQS itself, in detail, why it exists and so on, but it's there. It crept in somehow, from some Elvish source (living or on paper). And an already existing sun, for instance, could be handled in other, more purely Elvish texts, like The Awakening of the Quendi (in which the Sun exists before the Elves awaken), itself a text that might be "challenged" in that it's "only" an Elvish fairy tale filled with counting lore.

This, I think, is part of Tolkien's genius! And in my opinion this is where the legendarium was headed, already hinted at in the author-published ATB, and found in a number of late texts, all in general agreement. Christopher Tolkien wrote:

"It is remarkable that he never at this time seems to have felt that what he said in this present note [Myths Transformed, text I] provided a resolution of the problems that he believed to exist."

Christopher Tolkien

Why "remarkable"? Because the answer was seemingly "right there" at this time?

Later, I think, Tolkien did feel it