Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread

[Nogrod]

Well, there is one more chance for the wolves to play a high risk - high reward -game. But until it is at the very end of the game, that probably is not going to be believed by anyone, as the real U/L wouldn't want to shed the light on her as that would mean more or less certain death in a Night or two. For U/L to be quarantined is a loss of a kind, but her speaking it out would mean also a very bad situation to the whole village the maingame-wise - so she would probably use some discretion.

But yes, that was just an idea. If others share Legate's concern / show why my argument is bad, I'm ready to cancel the idea.


On other issues. With 21 villagers right now I have added seven characters to the village (and taken one off). They are, with short description to those who don't remember them.

On their way to Húrin's village:

Old Halmir, of the House of Haleth, Warden of the Haladin
Haldir, the heir of Halmir, chieftain of the Haladin
Glóredhel, of the House of Hador, Haldir’s wife

Hareth, of the house of Haleth, Húrin’s & Huor’s mom, Haldir’s sister
Huor, brother of Húrin
Rían, of the House of Bëor, wife of Huor

Also, already in the village we have:

Brandir, Haldir's grandchild, fosterchild in Húrin's house, later called "the lame"


I did drop Indor, Aerin's father, from the list for the time being as he's only mentioned once in the CoH and nothing else is told about him but that Aerin was his daughter.

If there is still someone to join, I will add him back to the list.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, there is one more chance for the wolves to play a high risk - high reward -game. But until it is at the very end of the game, that probably is not going to be believed by anyone, as the real U/L wouldn't want to shed the light on her as that would mean more or less certain death in a Night or two. For U/L to be quarantined is a loss of a kind, but her speaking it out would mean also a very bad situation to the whole village the maingame-wise - so she would probably use some discretion.

So ensuring U/L's survival is a secondary goal for the village, and killing her is the secondary goal for the wolves? That could work. It's not too complex of a subplot, and it doesn't drastically change the game dynamics. Primary goals still remain the same, and this is a bonus.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So ensuring U/L's survival is a secondary goal for the village, and killing her is the secondary goal for the wolves? That could work. It's not too complex of a subplot, and it doesn't drastically change the game dynamics. Primary goals still remain the same, and this is a bonus.

So she's basically a powerless Gifted role, whose status at the end can make a loss (by either team) a little less painful?

An alternate but related idea just occurred to me, which I thought I'd put out there: she could be an instance of the Innocent Child power. As I recall it, the IC's ability is that they can at any time get the Mod to publically confirm their status as the Innocent Child - a sort of free Seer check, but with the obvious proviso that the wolves know who you are as well.

I personally think the 'protect/kill U/L' is probably more interesting, but if people are concerned this is another option.

A third option, and the one I thought was originally discussed, is that the QT is the one that wants to protect UL. Villager or Infector, it doesn't matter - none of them want to see the little girl wind up in their plague house. Meanwhile, the living don't care, except insofar as it colours their reading of what the QT is up to.

hS

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Urwen is dead, but of Lalaith speak no more? Hmm.

Lalaith, as we all know, survived to conquer Angband with her flock of mutant geese and defeat Morgoth by sticking a lizard in his pillow.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But it sounds potentially explosive - as in, another venue for someone (including the real Urwen/Lalaith) to go shouting "wait! Don't lynch me! I'm Urwen!"

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

It sounds like an interesting concept, but I smell more potential problems (or rather, further confusion created).

Exactly. The whole U/L idea is, pardon the pun, sick, and I love it.

That said, I like Hui's Innocent Child idea too.

[satansaloser2005]

I've messaged a handful of other wights in hopes they might join us. I've so missed you all! <3

As for the deadline, I have no horse in the race, as I can vote whenever.

I love this game idea, and the application of the dead thread is fantastic. Three cheers to Nogrod and company! I do have one question on the dead thread, though perhaps I missed it: Does this mean roles will be revealed upon death, or will that remain secret?

On the topic of U/L, I think an additional goal for the quarantined would be fun. However, if we never who she is, or if she's one of the first killed, it doesn't affect the game too much, so it wouldn't be an unbalancing factor by any means.

And of course we always need a cobbler, regardless of how frequently people assume it's me.

Tomorrow can't come soon enough!


x'd with our lovely Pitchwife

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

And speaking of that, what can we call the role to differentiate it from the players? Just keep going U/L to indicate it's neither player but either name?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Does this mean roles will be revealed upon death, or will that remain secret?

Yes, the idea is to reveal roles so as to not overcomplicate things on the Game Thread.

[THE Ka]

Hey sorry for the late check-in, but had to refresh myself since it's been several years.

I've never played a game with a cobbler role, but I do enjoy the idea of it in this set up. Maybe to help balance out the ordo to wolf ratio? Echoing Legate's concerns about the numbers per role. We may have quite enough players to set it at six? Or just add a cobbler to keep it balanced in the sense that they could inadvertently help wolves or do nothing to tip the scales.

Just to be clear, the voting deadline is settling on 9PM GMT for the game and 7PM GMT for the QT? Either time works for me, I'd just not like to be late being in the Pacific.

Thank you again for letting me join, hopefully I survive this time.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

There's a distinct lack of Nerwen, but I'd like to join in, if you'll have me.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

Very simple. There is a difference between Urwen/Lalaith (the way I wrote it) and Urwen/Lalaith (the players). That could be easy enough to distinguish, if people can make sure they check their bolding?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And speaking of that, what can we call the role to differentiate it from the players? Just keep going U/L to indicate it's neither player but either name?

Or this.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Exactly. The whole U/L idea is, pardon the pun, sick, and I love it.

That said, I like Hui's Innocent Child idea too.

The Innocent Child is a very interesting concept, never heard about it before. But the original idea, if people do not have a problem with it, is okay too as an extra objective. Just if it doesn't make an already huuuuuuge game too much bigger and more complicated and lenghten the already long thread by another five pages of discussing whether to care about U/L at all on Day 1 alone.

[Nogrod]

Good to see you too Shasta!

And we're up to 22... with this number we'll add a cobbler. any more signing in's on these last hours before the game starts will lead to a consideration of exchanging that cobbler to a one more Infector ("wolf").


What I thought about telling the player whom I'd designate as "narration's U/L" (one more way of making the distinction) was just to give one player more pressure aka. fun - and maybe give the QT one more issue to mull over (I liked hS's idea that it would be especially up to the QT to save her). Now we might just make a ruling that with this quite special role (being a "secondary winning condition" for the villagers - or just QT - or "consolation prize" for the baddies) there could be a special rule also: that the person made to be U/L is not allowed to reveal or claim it. Or we could go with the Innocent Child -idea because that is nothing anyone would try to fake. Although in that case (with practically one free Seer-dream, albeit a dangerous one for the secondary winning condition), I think we might do well to think of the balance once more.

But that is something we need to think anyway, a least if there are any more people joining (looking forwards to seeing Nerwen entering the Thread).



We need some time to decide on the final ratios of different roles, and I need some to make thorough enough randomization of the roles. So let's decide here and now, that the latest hour for anyone to join the game is 6PM GMT/UTC today (aka. three hours before Night1 begins). So that's more or less like 7 hours from now.

Meanwhile, please let me know your thoughts on any of the matters we have discussed thus far. We need to fix them before Night1.