Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Boro

The one thing I was most certain of agreeing with today was Pitch's comment that there was a difference in that LGP group between Legate's "enthusiasm" in jumping on G55's question to stir conversation. If I'm reading correctly now. Did Pitch sort of back away from suspecting G55, to defending G55, and back track again? I'm going back through those interactions, because if true, that does ping more to my fight senses than anything else today.

A difference between Legate's enthusiasm and what? Not quite sure what you're trying to say there.


Votes as I go:
Lhuna --> Lhuna - I mean, what is there to say really? It's a thing. I'm ok with being a thing toDay, but not anything past that.

Rikae --> Brinn - seems to be largely down to the wanting to avoid a trap comment. Other people have mentioned wanting to steer clear of the Legate-Pitch-G55 triangle, but even that seems to have died down as the Day has gone on and more people have appeared. Perhaps it's the 'avoid a trap' wording rather than the sentiment itself?

G55 --> Rikae - quite a big fight seems to have blown up between these two. I looked at post 69 and couldn't really see anything in it. Yes, Rikae somewhat exaggerated events but it was early in the Day and to me read as typical banter. I don't think there was this element of deliberate misrepresentation that G55 feels is going on. I don't know if G55 has played with Rikae before and it's an unfamiliarity with playing style thing, or a great way for a wolf-G55 to have a pretty logical reason to vote an innocent-Rikae.

Originally Posted by G55

It's not a WW game without me and Rikae getting into a flame war, isn't it?

Ah, well that puts paid to that idea!

Seriously, can someone tell me how I quote within quote. Otherwise you're going to keep getting things like this:

Originally Posted by Hui

#95: Kitanna discusses a Galadriwolf or PitchWolf, but interestingly doesn't suggest a pack. She does seem to suggest G55 and Rikae as a pack with this:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

*side eyes both [G55 & Rikae]* Orchestrated wolf action? I suppose not likely, but the more I read of G55 the more I raise my eyebrows.

I think the quote from Kitanna actually says she doesn't think G55 and Rikae are working together, not suggesting they are a pack at all.

Originally Posted by Greenie

The only thing I was wary of was her argument that there is likely to be a wolf in the Pitch-Gal-Legate -trio - as others have pointed out, there's no basis for this really but it would be a very convenient idea for a wolf to advocate.

This is also about Kitanna. Greenie was talking about her lacking consistency, but actually she's been pretty consistent about suspecting G55 across both the major arguments of the Day.

G55 ... earlier in the Day it was felt by some that she'd backed away from the 'fake-votes' in favour of leaving that to Legate, and was garnering a bit of suspicion or at least wary eyes as a result. She then leaps headfirst into a ding dong with Rikae and a few have now mentioned this makes her look innocent. I don't know that I'm going anywhere with this as it feels like it would be way too hard to make that a calculated thing.

Oh and Boro --> Pitch - supposed deliberate flip flopping between Legate and G55.

Urwen --> G55 - 'because I am Morleg and I am spiteful'. That's either a horrible reason for a vote or some reference I'm not understanding. Had Urwen shown any suspicion toward G55 before this? I don't really even recall Urwen posting until now.

Pitch --> Brinn - for using the same suspects as Rikae and then switching to Kitanna when she was suspected for this.

I'm posting this now but no doubt I'll have crossed by the time it gets there!

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Kath

A difference between Legate's enthusiasm and what? Not quite sure what you're trying to say there.

Disagreed with his original take here (Post 37):

OK, Legate, let me ask you: What exactly do we have to gain from the kind of fake vote you're suggesting?
If it is just that, a fake vote with no real lynch as per G55, we've effectively wasted a day, nobody has to fear the consequences of their vote because without a lynch, we won't know whether they voted for an innoent or a wolf, and the wolves can go wolf-on-wolf to their hearts' content witrh no danger to any of them.
If it's just that people announce beforehand whom they are planning to vote, and the vote takes place later, and we compare what people said before to how they actually voted, how is this different from what we usually do?
This strikes me as a pseudo-useful suggestion/discussion. *ping*

Agreed with Pitch's assessment here (Post 98):

Why did I pressure Legate rather than G55 re the fake votes? The difference between

1) G55 throwing out an idea to stir up a discussion, and

2) Legate picking it up and going "Oh yes that's a good idea let's totally do that!", when I thought it was a) not helpful and b) needlessly overcomplicating things. But my last note on him, on his reply to G55 in #44, was 'actually sensible?'

Which I read as "ok, this makes more sense because I agree there is a difference between 1 and 2."

Then goes back and forth on G55 afterwards. His reasons for this flip-flopping were unrelated to Legate. But for (Post 163)

G55 is all over the place, fairly confrontational, sometimes eyebrow-raising (about Urwen/Maeglin: really?). Her all-out attack on Rikae just now does sound a lot like passionate innocent though and makes me feel better about her.
Paradoxically, so does Rikae's response so far.

My read on it came to the conclusion that he was early on trying to play both sides between Legate and G55. Which I can't understand a reason for since post #98 made a lot of sense.

Edit: crossed with everyone since Kath's #213

[Rikae]

So, just putting this here because I think this could be important later. This Brinn-wagon everyone's talking about is two votes at this point, mine and Pitch's.

And the people who expressed concern about it are Huey, Lottie and Inzil, in that order (let me know if I missed someone).

Now, I found Pitch suspicious from the beginning, although just for vibes really, and Brinn could have started looking like a convenient vote. On the other hand, three people pushing back on a wagon for coming out of nowhere after two reasoned votes (by day 1 standards) is odd, too, especially if Brinn turns out wolfish or the trolley is redirected toward an innocent. Lottie's and Inzil's positions in the anti-Brinnwagon-wagon are, that is - Huey's is pretty bold.

Edit: X'd with everything since Shasta #233

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So, just putting this here because I think this could be important later. This Brinn-wagon everyone's talking about is two votes at this point, mine and Pitch's.

And the people who expressed concern about it are Huey, Lottie and Inzil, in that order (let me know if I missed someone).

Now, I found Pitch suspicious from the beginning, although just for vibes really, and Brinn could have started looking like a convenient vote. On the other hand, three people pushing back on a wagon for coming out of nowhere after two reasoned votes (by day 1 standards) is odd, too, especially if Brinn turns out wolfish or the trolley is redirected toward an innocent. Lottie's and Inzil's positions in the anti-Brinnwagon-wagon are, that is - Huey's is pretty bold.

Edit: X'd with everything since Shasta #233

It can't be as simple as a pack of Hui + Brinn + Zil + Lottie + X, can it? But seriously, since we already know Hui was a wolf, if one or more of the other people Rikae mentions here are his packmates this post alone could explain the wolves' eagerness to off them without the need of assuming a plan to frame Mac or anybody.

And if I'm right with this, the pack would also have preferred us to discuss the lack of a Kit-kill yesterDay rather than alternative reasons for the Rikae-kill beyond their suspicions of Mac and Brinn.

[Loslote]

It's so quiet today. Like, we are three hours away from the deadline on a weekend, and there just isn't that much going on. I feel like a lot of the wolves might be trying to keep a bit of a low profile toDay - there's enough consensus that they can probably get away with just focusing on the obvious, or maybe try to mislead a little if they're in trouble or think they can maybe save a packmate. I like seeing Pitch, Brinn, and Legate all talking about non-obvious players. I feel like Kath and Lalaith tried to start up a little sidebar conversation, but people didn't really bite. That also feels more innocent in my eyes. I got a bit of a "staying on safe topics" vibe from Ka, Lommy, and Greenie, but I don't know that I'd say that's a huge red flag, necessarily, since I get the feeling most people in the village are on similar pages, suspicion-wise.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Loslote

It's so quiet today. Like, we are three hours away from the deadline on a weekend, and there just isn't that much going on. I feel like a lot of the wolves might be trying to keep a bit of a low profile toDay - there's enough consensus that they can probably get away with just focusing on the obvious, or maybe try to mislead a little if they're in trouble or think they can maybe save a packmate. I like seeing Pitch, Brinn, and Legate all talking about non-obvious players. I feel like Kath and Lalaith tried to start up a little sidebar conversation, but people didn't really bite. That also feels more innocent in my eyes. I got a bit of a "staying on safe topics" vibe from Ka, Lommy, and Greenie, but I don't know that I'd say that's a huge red flag, necessarily, since I get the feeling most people in the village are on similar pages, suspicion-wise.

For myself, Saturdays are usually quite hectic. I'm back though and will be here until the end. Doing some work on the non-Mac/Huey voters.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

It makes me think - was it that there was a Zilwolf (or others, but him being the first starter) desperate because they'd spared Kit on the hope that it will cause a debate in the village, and it didn't, so he had to start it himself?

Maybe: if you forget the fact that I brought it up within a half hour of the Day's start.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

It can't be as simple as a pack of Hui + Brinn + Zil + Lottie + X, can it? But seriously, since we already know Hui was a wolf, if one or more of the other people Rikae mentions here are his packmates this post alone could explain the wolves' eagerness to off them without the need of assuming a plan to frame Mac or anybody.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't be averse to a Brinn or Lottie vote.

[satansaloser2005]

Back from surprisingly time-consuming errands.