TIG CXVII: GAME Thread:

[Soriman the Whide]

Appologies for my scarce posts, I should have more time for this game in the coming days.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Soriman- newbie pass I feel a new wolf would be more panicky?

Of course, everyone can trust me! The meta gaming really gives me a free pass .

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Under this model, there are lots of singular votes that by themselves do not say much except that they are still creating alternatives (and at the same time are potentially throwaway). Whom I would put under scrutiny are actually the people who made the second votes, thus making the bandwagons roll (Lommy and Hui, with the added value that Hui was acting clearly with the bonus to prevent a wagon against himself - the question of course being that he could have equally well voted for Morsul or Pitch, if it was just about that). Either of them could have acted as Wolves protecting one of Morsul or Pitch (who had votes from before) by supporting bandwagons for somebody else.

I can follow this line of thinking and it does make sense to me, Huin does seem suspicious to me but I do not know if this is just his aggressive playstyle, I feel most people would aggressivley defend their life if they can but Huin also appears (at least to me) to favour shifting blame to others.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

This though is just very narrow and focused on only 2 people, Lommy and Huey (those who made the 2nd vote for either Greenie/Huey). Why do you ignore the 1st votes for Greenie or Huey? I'm not buying the "1st votes for someone aren't suspicious because it's still creating an alternative and thus the 2nd votes are more suspicious because those votes got a potential bandwagon going."

Wouldn't it be likely the wolves will follow the first votes on day one? After the first votes wovles can more safely vote without having to hold their vote to save a fellow wolf. If someone voted with a bandwagon there is still safety in the large group.

I can't be certain of anything but I hope Huin is on our side as he seems like a powerful ally.


That said I'm just going to lock in my vote for ++Lottie as Huins most likely packmate (if he is one of them) in my mind.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

That said I'm just going to lock in my vote for ++Lottie as Huins most likely packmate (if he is one of them) in my mind.

Well this escalated quickly. I'm happy that you are here and posting. But is this just based on the premise that Hui is a Wolf??? Would not in such a case it make sense to vote for him - not to speak that what if the premise itself was false?

EDIT: x-ed after my last

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Otherwise... I would personally prefer to vote, well, after what happened a moment ago I'd feel like voting for Soriman on impulse, but a) I would like to hear some clarification and b) I do not feel like casting a vote based on effectively the only post he's made.

But otherwise my top options would include Pitch and Boro with his strange analysis, and I think lynching Hui would also clarify several things, even though I started feeling better about him during the course of toDay. Of those who have votes I am not comfortable to cast my vote for Lottie and with lynching sally there are just so many "what ifs" - the whole Form question of frames or double-frames or whatever.

I will think on this; I am not going to sleep yet at this very moment.

[Pitchwife]

So, looking at yesterDay's non-votees. This is going to be impressionistic as I'm getting tired.
Boro - want to trust him and second-guessing myself. Ilike his thought-processes and to some part the conclusions he arrives at, esp. about a Legate/Hui connection (the part about "Hui + X").
Kath - I'm a bit worried by her single-minded conviction that Form's death must point to sally's guilt, which I'd expect from a wolf whose pack went for a no trace kill with the benefit of framing sally. The rest of her posts seem very reasonable and balanced.
Legate - is a slippery fish, also a furry fish? (would that be seal, or an otter?) Among the five non-votees I'm least inclined to trust him ATM. It doesn't help that he keeps painting me black. Also just saw this:

Originally Posted by Legate

I think lynching Hui would also clarify several things, even though I started feeling better about him during the course of toDay

What the frell is this? If you're feeling better about someone you don't consider lynching them just to clarify things!

Lommy - found her suspicious early yesterDay, felt better about her later, haven't examined her enough to form a solid opinion since


If it's between Lottie and sally I'll be in a sore place. I do get the frustrated innocent ring from Lottie, and I don't really get the case against sally.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What the frell is this? If you're feeling better about someone you don't consider lynching them just to clarify things!

"Better", but not exonerating. I am still considering him suspicious enough to merit a vote otherwise.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Of course, everyone can trust me! The meta gaming really gives me a free pass .

That’s not eyebrow raising at all.

I hate voting early this post sends Every bad vibe

[Boromir88]

Legate's response does give me a slight bit of caution and glad I decided to step back. I do find his analysis still suspicious, but these are good points to my belaboring the point throughout the day:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But you can say that about any vote, obviously. If I understand you correctly, and if you are genuine about this, then it seems to me we just differ in the manner of rhetorics. I simply believe that the second votes, especially in this small number, were more decisive than singular first votes. It's like if I said "billionnaires are rich" and then you disputed me by saying that millionnaires are also rich. I am not disputing that they are.


You can call it whichever way you want. Both were possibly incriminating there. Pitch's was, let's call it more conveniently placed, and it both followed a switch from his older suspects to voting somebody who was likely not going to get lynched and at the same time not getting his hands dirty by lynching an innocent. Bonus value if Hui is a Wolf and Pitch thus cast a Wolf-on-Wolf vote in a safe space. That was the gist of what I was saying about him.

Both fair. Pitch's and Lottie's votes are incriminating and it could be a difference in the manner of how we interpret and judge the placement of when people vote.

Huey is shooting up red flags and it's not because he's voted or suspects me at all. It's this, which I definitely classify as "sinister."

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

At this point I find Boro most suspicious in isolation, but either Pitch or (to a lesser extent) Lommy in conjunction with a wolf Sally.

So you're most suspicious of me and cast suspicion my way, and state that Pitch and Lommy are also less suspicious, but out of the 4 of us you called sally a wolf. If you truly think sally is a wolf...why not vote for sally? So are you saying Pitch and Lommy are suspicious if sally turns out to be a wolf?

Then in your post that you voted for me, again you throw up "wolfSally"

Originally Posted by Huey

I think lynching a WolfSally would shed a lot of light, but I also think it would be an easy lynch for the wolves to jump on board because of the "SeerForm" thing. Also, per my last, I have no read on Sally as wolfish except for "SeerForm" logic.

If you think lynching wolfSally would shed more light on things...why in the blazes did you vote for me? I get if I look suspicious, fare enough, but this is VERY RED FLAG. "Lynching wolfSally might shed some more light on things, but I'm just going to vote for someone else anyway."

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If you think lynching wolfSally would shed more light on things...why in the blazes did you vote for me? I get if I look suspicious, fare enough, but this is VERY RED FLAG. "Lynching wolfSally might shed some more light on things, but I'm just going to vote for someone else anyway."

Blaarg, this is why I couldn't sleep, I knew someone would pick a turn of phrase and try to make make me a Definite Wolf over it... since it was apparently not obvious, by "wolf!Sally" I meant that IF Sally is a wolf, lynching them would be best because it would provide information on Pitch and Lommy (as stated, it would look bad for them IF Sally is a wolf). But I have NOT read anything which makes Sally feel like a wolf to me, and so I think it's a coin toss: WolfSally or InnocentSally.

Since I'm pretty sure you are a wolf, I'd rather lynch you than gamble on Sally.

hS (is still trying to sleep)

Xed with Pitch

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Pitch

What the frell is this? If you're feeling better about someone you don't consider lynching them just to clarify things!

Unless, I might add, you don't care either way who gets lynched as long as it's not one of your pack.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Blaarg, this is why I couldn't sleep, I knew someone would pick a turn of phrase and try to make make me a Definite Wolf over it... since it was apparently not obvious, by "wolf!Sally" I meant that IF Sally is a wolf, lynching them would be best because it would provide information on Pitch and Lommy (as stated, it would look bad for them IF Sally is a wolf). But I have NOT read anything which makes Sally feel like a wolf to me, and so I think it's a coin toss: WolfSally or InnocentSally.

Since I'm pretty sure you are a wolf, I'd rather lynch you than gamble on Sally.

hS (is still trying to sleep)

Xed with Pitch

Is it a turn of a phrase or a slip to protect yourself if I am lynched and revealed to everyone that I am innocent?

Because you have listed the people you are suspicious of (Myself, Lommy, Pitch, and sally) and only referred to sally as a wolf. Now if you are innocent and truly voting for me, being the most suspicious looking person to you, fair enough. But you didn't call me a wolf in your post when you voted for me. You said in your vote post for me that I was "most likely a wolf," while directly referring to sally as a wolf.

But I've said my bit on this, made my point now and won't continue hammering on about it.

++Huey

[Galadriel55]

Morsul --> Sally
Sally --> Lottie
Kath --> Sally (2)
Soriman --> Lottie (2)
Hui --> Boro
Boro --> Hui


DL in 1 hour. Dead vote comes in at deadline.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Hui

I think lynching a WolfSally would shed a lot of light, but I also think it would be an easy lynch for the wolves to jump on board because of the "SeerForm" thing. Also, per my last, I have no read on Sally as wolfish except for "SeerForm" logic.

Much as I dislike the idea of lynching people for no better reason than to 'shed light on things', I think I get what Hui is saying here, and I agree with the last sentence. (so should Boro by the way!)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I got distracted for a bit but now I am back...

I am not sure what to think about Boro suddenly being so friendly, plus now I see Boro voted Hui and Hui voted Boro, as if to challenge me to vote for the other. Well, I am probably more inclined to vote Boro, also because of the conciliatory tone of his #176.

Need to make sense of things, slightly catching up stuff here. Will try to make sense of stuff soon, hopefully not crossposted with too many again.

[Thinlómien]

So toDay Huin/Legate/Boro is a thing? I can't quite put my finger on it, but the blaming others for tunnel vision while tunnel visioning themselves circle is certainly eye catching. Something about it seems fishy to me. Sorry, that's not very analytical I know but something's off there. I'm also tempted to give them all a pass for toDay - which I probably shouldn't - because all their long posts, especially Boro and Legate's, are giving me headache. They're getting pretty advanced, and I don't have the patience right now (it's 0.30 and the last workday of the week and I'm feeling it) to untangle it. But I'm saying once again there's something furry going on here.

I feel better about both Morsul and Lottie. They're giving me vibes of frustrated ordos trying to work things out.

I'm a little frustrated about Sally (sorry kidney muffin, I know you must be frustrated too) and her lack of participation. Does she seem guilty to me? No, not really, I don't think it very likely she'd kill Form as a wolf, she's not that paranoid usually. Does she seem innocent to me? No, because she hasn't said anything that would make me trust her either. Should we lynch her? Who knows?? It's a shot in the dark, but I would prefer it to lynching someone I consider innocent. Should we give her a pass until Day3 just because she's been busy? That doesn't sound fair either.

Generally re: the seer/ wolf kill speculation. I'm gonna criticise myself here a little too (see my formalysis) but I don't understand why people are so hell bent in always thinking the wolves would kill someone who looks like a seer because they suspected them. I mean statistically seers are much more likely to dream of innocents. The wolves know who are innocent. Ergo, wouldn't they be on the lookout for someone seerishly talking about someone innocent as innocent, not just for someone seerishly talking about a wolf as suspicious?

I feel considerably less good about Kath toDay than yesterDay. I mean she comes, posts bulky analyses that are mostly recap, makes again a very easy vote (yesterDay Morsul who's a guaranteed suspicion grabber on day1 regardless of his role, toDay Sally whom Form's death mildly implicates and who's not really around to defend herself).

Originally Posted by Huin

Lommy in #136 makes a weird-sounding claim that WolfSally wouldn't have thought Form was a Seer because the vote and justification 'didn't seem like Seerish suspicion'. Which, a) a Seer who dreamed a wolf doesn't suspect, but more importantly b) a Seer who thought they could kill their dreamed wolf by making it look random would surely do that rather than going "I SEE that Sally is a wolf, do you SEE what I mean".

Okay fair point, I didn't think of it that way! I thought Form's phrasing didn't look seerish and ergo wolf!Sally wouldn't likely have been worried about it, but it's true that in the seer's case especially actions mean more than words, and a seer!Form who had dreamed of wolf!Sally would have certainly taken the opportunity to lynch her if possible. Maybe I'm a bit slow but I didn't think of it from that angle (maybe because I know Form wasn't the seer)

Soriman's vote = ????????????

Originally Posted by Legate

This is an interesting remark from Kath and I did not realise it fully at first, but in retrospect, it is true - and I am not sure what to make of it. Hui is certainly no beginner player who would need to latch onto and just copypaste somebody else's opinion. But it seems to me we have also converged at multiple times, so maybe we just think in a similar manner.

Or you're both wolves and working as a united front in order to terminate the village faster?


edit: xed with Pitch and Legate

[Thinlómien]

As I said, I would prefer the whole Legate/Hui/Boro kettle of fish for toMorrow because I'm not sure what to think about it. I feel considerably less certain of Legate and Boro's innocence than yesterDay - both of them have been a little shady toDay - but I don't think I have any actual arguments against them. Huin I still find suspicious, but Form's death makes him look a little better. If I had to pick one of them to lynch toDay I would probably prefer Huin over Legate, and Legate over Boro. But I would still like to unpack this with a fresher brain.

Like I said, Lottie and Morsul look better to me now. Not a huge fan of the idea of lynching either of them toDay.

Sally? I'm okay with that, but I'm not sure it's the smartest move. I feel like this whole Sally thing has been blown a little out of proportion while she's not here to defend herself, which is a little suspicious in itself.

I would feel the most comfortable voting Kath (see my previous post) or Pitchwife, whose argumentation keeps going in circles I cannot understand and that seem concoluted and wolvish to me.

But if I had to pick from the current vote candidates, I'd probably go for Sally. I have less misgivings about it than about lynching Boro or Lottie.

Oh yes and Soriman. Really not sure what to make of that. His argumentation is bizarre and he's on par with Sally when it comes to how much content he's posted. Not very impressed by his vote, but not sure it merits being called suspicious. It's mostly odd.


edit: xed with Gal and Boro

[Thinlómien]

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS HUIN / BORO / LEGATE BOVINE EXCREMENT????

Now you're making me consider it toDay. I have a headache.

I really don't know which one of you is the wolf / wolves, but if you're all three innocent I'm gonna eat my mousepad.*


*...or with my recent ww track record, maybe not. But you get the sentiment.

[Thinlómien]

Btw currently contemplating the idea of a Boro / Huin / Legate pack and laughing my head off. I can't say if they'd be brilliant or really terrible at their job. But I'm pretty sure it would play out almost exactly like this. They'd probably have planned their wolf-on-wolf drama beforehand at Night.

[Thinlómien]

So, who hasn't voted?

Legate, Pitch, Lottie and myself?

I would still prefer Kath or Pitch, but especially the latter seems to be off the table for toDay...


edit: xed with Pitch

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Btw currently contemplating the idea of a Boro / Huin / Legate pack and laughing my head off. I can't say if they'd be brilliant or really terrible at their job. But I'm pretty sure it would play out almost exactly like this. They'd probably have planned their wolf-on-wolf drama beforehand at Night.

This just made me laugh out loud so hard, and I'm still laughing. Bad thing is, I can totally see it, and honestly, right now I'd probably feel more confident voting any of them than I'd feel about voting anybody else (possibly excepting Kath). Order of preference being Legate > Hui > Boro.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS HUIN / BORO / LEGATE BOVINE EXCREMENT????

The only thing I'm certain of toDay, is I will gladly offer my service to my Lord and my loyal companions. If that service requires my life so I can join my fallen brethren, Form and Greenie, then so be it.

I hope I have not erred with my stubbornness by actually aiding the 3 betrayers among us. Some of my initial conclusions yesterday may have been misplaced, but I don't think I've erred today. If I have then may death reveal my true heart.

Edit: crossed with Lottie and Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Argh. I was just about to say that I'd prefer voting Boro over Hui, but now this is going into directions I do not have the brain capacity for at this hour.