Celebrimbor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

jallanite · 06-22-2001, 07:18 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 25</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Celebrimbor

The passage I quoted unequivocally indicates that Curufin and Celegorm "could only get word to Gondolin by facing evil perils." These perils are presumably the dangers of Dungorthin.

So it is said and so it must be.

But I realize on re-reading this account that it does not say that they actually knew its location.

This is only speculation, but it might be that Turgon had made known to the Elf Kings that messages might be sent to him through the eagles of Crissaegrim. Whether Gondolin itself was in the vicinity of Crissaegrim or far off would not be known. This might have been known also to Celebrimbor. But maybe instead messages could be got to Gondolin through Fingolfin in some manner. But to come to either Crissaegrim or to Fingolfin might indeed involve braving the perils of Dungorthin.

I say might because one of the problems with the story of Maeglin is that it ignores entirely the possiblilty of travel between Gondolin and Himlad via Dorthonion, which one would think, in those days before the breaking of the Siege, would be much safer, though somewhat longer. But that is a different problem.

I do not believe that Tolkien, once he had placed the founding of Gondolin before the breaking of the Siege, ever in any way indicated what was thought when Turgon and all his people suddenly vanished, forsaking the siege of Angband. The account I quoted indicates that it was known that Turgon and his folk now dwelt in a hidden city. The ordinary tale of Maeglin also assumes some such knowledge, for there is no suggestion that Aredhel's sudden appearance would be an utter surprise to Fingon and Eöl openly calls his wife "the White Lady of Gondolin" in his bandinage with Celegorm. So the Elven kings at least knew of the existance of the Hidden City and also, it would seem, how to send messages to Turgon in need. But indeed none would have known its exact location or its approaches, taking Turgon's words to Ardhel with their open meaning.

But the little they knew would have been a closely guarded secret and few who knew it survived to tell it after the ending of the Elder Days.

</p>

06-22-2001, 07:18 PM	#31
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 25</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Celebrimbor The passage I quoted unequivocally indicates that Curufin and Celegorm "could only get word to Gondolin by facing evil perils." These perils are presumably the dangers of Dungorthin. So it is said and so it must be. But I realize on re-reading this account that it does not say that they actually knew its location. This is only speculation, but it might be that Turgon had made known to the Elf Kings that messages might be sent to him through the eagles of Crissaegrim. Whether Gondolin itself was in the vicinity of Crissaegrim or far off would not be known. This might have been known also to Celebrimbor. But maybe instead messages could be got to Gondolin through Fingolfin in some manner. But to come to either Crissaegrim or to Fingolfin might indeed involve braving the perils of Dungorthin. I say might because one of the problems with the story of Maeglin is that it ignores entirely the possiblilty of travel between Gondolin and Himlad via Dorthonion, which one would think, in those days before the breaking of the Siege, would be much safer, though somewhat longer. But that is a different problem. I do not believe that Tolkien, once he had placed the founding of Gondolin before the breaking of the Siege, ever in any way indicated what was thought when Turgon and all his people suddenly vanished, forsaking the siege of Angband. The account I quoted indicates that it was known that Turgon and his folk now dwelt in a hidden city. The ordinary tale of Maeglin also assumes some such knowledge, for there is no suggestion that Aredhel's sudden appearance would be an utter surprise to Fingon and Eöl openly calls his wife "the White Lady of Gondolin" in his bandinage with Celegorm. So the Elven kings at least knew of the existance of the Hidden City and also, it would seem, how to send messages to Turgon in need. But indeed none would have known its exact location or its approaches, taking Turgon's words to Ardhel with their open meaning. But the little they knew would have been a closely guarded secret and few who knew it survived to tell it after the ending of the Elder Days. </p>