Bye Bye Balrogs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 08-14-2001, 09:07 AM

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Re: Bye Bye Balrogs

I would also vote for option 3, though I don't think that we should mention the number 7. In any case, we cannot keep the thousands. If we mention 7, though, then we run into the problem of the War of the Powers: were any Balrogs killed then? It seems to me unlikely that no Balrogs took part in that battle, but for any to have died there causes problems in the later wars.

As for re-embodiment: I definitely don't think this should be used. While it does seem logical that the Balrogs, being Maiar, could survive being slain (like Sauron), everything in JRRT's writings points to this NOT being the case.

A few comments on the proposed Balrog changes:

FG-B01: I think we should consider taking out all reference to Balrogs riding dragons. This really falls under both the Balrog and mechanical dragon problems. I know we're not to address the wing debate in this project, but this sentence touches on that. If Balrogs can fly, why are they riding dragons? I think the best thing to do would be to leave the wing situation as ambiguous as possible; i.e., to delete any references that might point in one direction or the other. Additionally, we must remember that at the time this was written, the 'dragons' were machines; there is no other example of anyone using normal dragons for transport.

FG-B03: I think this is good, considering the difficulties. The only possible emendation I would make would be not to specify the number two in "{a number} <u>two</u> made for the folk of the Hammer and gave before them"; perhaps 'a few' or 'several'?

FG-B04: Same as FG-B01.

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08-14-2001, 09:07 AM	#5
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Moderator Posts: 52</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Bye Bye Balrogs I would also vote for option 3, though I don't think that we should mention the number 7. In any case, we cannot keep the thousands. If we mention 7, though, then we run into the problem of the War of the Powers: were any Balrogs killed then? It seems to me unlikely that no Balrogs took part in that battle, but for any to have died there causes problems in the later wars. As for re-embodiment: I definitely don't think this should be used. While it does seem logical that the Balrogs, being Maiar, could survive being slain (like Sauron), everything in JRRT's writings points to this NOT being the case. A few comments on the proposed Balrog changes: FG-B01: I think we should consider taking out all reference to Balrogs riding dragons. This really falls under both the Balrog and mechanical dragon problems. I know we're not to address the wing debate in this project, but this sentence touches on that. If Balrogs can fly, why are they riding dragons? I think the best thing to do would be to leave the wing situation as ambiguous as possible; i.e., to delete any references that might point in one direction or the other. Additionally, we must remember that at the time this was written, the 'dragons' were machines; there is no other example of anyone using normal dragons for transport. FG-B03: I think this is good, considering the difficulties. The only possible emendation I would make would be not to specify the number two in "{a number} <u>two</u> made for the folk of the Hammer and gave before them"; perhaps 'a few' or 'several'? FG-B04: Same as FG-B01. </p>