** Fall of Gondolin Section 3 Structure**

[Maédhros]

Posted by Aiwnendil
To me, a bigger problem seems to be the mention of Sauron in ToY. Yes, it is a vague and dubious note, but it makes me wish there were some way of achieving ambiguity (my favorite word) here so as to allow the possibility that Sauron captured him. But alas, I don't see any way to do that.

As I have said before, I have no problem keeping the text as it is. Orcs are orcs and that behaviour can certainly be explained. However, as you have pointed out, the introduction of Sauron would to me, require heavy enmendation, because Sauron would have guessed correctly about the information that Maeglin gave them and certainly would have tried a more subtle approach than mere Orcs. I see no way of introducing him without great alteration.

Posted by Aiwendil
The only other minor point that I can see in part 3 that has not yet been finalized is FG-M-02: the "sons of Orcs" bit. Perhaps someone could explain to me precisely why "sons of Orcs" doesn't work as an embellishment for "Orcs" while "sons of Men" does work as an embellishment for "Men". It's not that I think this point is particularly important; I simply don't see any good reason to make the change.

While this is a minor point, and may fall on the category of a change of style, here is my reason for the change:
1. If I'm not mistaken, the phrase sons of Orcs is not found in the later writtings of the Sil, while that of Sons of Men is.
2. Reproduction. I think that we all here are ok about Sons of Men, because Men acknowledge that they have offspring and they refer to it as their sons. But do Orcs have that same thing?
3. It seems odd to me.