The Problem of Rog

[lindil]

Worse, it would be fan fiction to claim that his name was lost - and an unlikely fan fiction at that.

IMO,this is not the case.
If [ and I am not saying anyone else does]we agree w/ CJRT that Rog can not as a name exist in the canononical legendarium, then we really have lost the name, in the same spirit as JRRT writes the 1st chapter of the Hobbit and the prolouge of the LotR, that this is translated history.

I do not find using a footnote to explain a lost name any differet [in essence] from our decision to change Legolas --> Laegolas.

Fronm CJRT's pov the evolution of the Legendarium rendered Rog's name unusable in the Silm, just as Legolas in the LotR rendered Legolas' name unusable in the FOG.

Aiwendil, I noticed seemingly contradictory positions in the long list of support quotes Maedhros gave for Rog.

If you would not mind clarifying or correcting the following:

Regarding Rog: The problem isn't that 'Rog' is unsuitable in later Quenya or Sindarin; on the contrary, it's found in the Sindarin compound 'balrog'. The problem is that it has a fairly clear meaning in modern Sindarin - 'Demon'. The Etymologies give RUK- as the root, with Q ranko and N rhaug. I think we can all agree such a name is unsuitable for an elf. The Gnomish lexicon gives 'rog' as 'doughty, strong', though CRT notes in BolT that it probably also meant 'fleet, swift'. Since 'strong' is the gloss that JRRT gives, however, I'd be inclined to think that Rog in FoG means 'strong'. Later Quenya for 'strong' might be ...

In the above, I am cheifly confused by the -rog [cognate - is it? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]] and the


Jallanite said:

We know Rog is probably wrong, that Tolkien would probably have changed it, but can we change it?

I would rephrase it to say 'can we keep it?'

If -rog means demon, then can not have an elf named such in Gondolin ?

I do not wish to excise any part of the battle [or story] that can stay, but better to loose a large chunk, than keep it with it's central character's name being to my mind clearly uncanonical. Yes the choices all have problems, but I would hate to see us keep Rog, just because we reached agreement on how to deal with his Balrog. I being the laziest amongst us hate wasted effort the most!