Redundancy on the rise - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

LePetitChoux · 02-03-2003, 05:11 PM

Have you noticed how the number of pointless topics has risen in the past, well, week, let alone month! I would like to ask permission to post a "Golden-No-No's" thread, with all the most common redundancies like "Who is Tom Bombadil?" or "Do Balrogs ave Wings?" or "Is there any religious symbolism behind LotR?" or "Who is your favourite [insert race here]?"
I think it might help, if only very slightly. Or something, at least, has to be done, because sometimes B-D almost feels like one of those other slack, un-strict, post-what-you-want Tolkien forums. Which we don't want.

~LePetitChoux

P.S. I said ALMOST, I wasn't accusing it! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Orual · 02-03-2003, 05:19 PM

Bonne idée, LePetitChoux. But even with the all-caps "NEW MEMBERS--POST HERE" thread, I saw a "Hey, I'm new" thread today. Still, it couldn't hurt to put a new one up, because if I see another thread about religion and Lord of the Rings, I'll...

...I'll do something, and it won't be pleasant. I'll get back with you on the specifics.

If you need any help, just PM me. I think that such a thread would be an excellent idea.

~*~Orual~*~

VanimaEdhel · 02-03-2003, 06:21 PM

Awww...so you mean my Tolkien Religion speech that I have stored away on a file, I began to use it so much, will come to disuse? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

I agree...is there somewhere we could somehow have an alphabetical list of every topic that's been covered to death in every room? Sort of like a list of, "Best and Worst Topics We've Covered and will Never Discuss Again, Thank You Very Much!"

Also, because it is impossible in the "Search" feature to search the entire site. You can only search one room at a time, which gets tedious if you do not know which room a topic would be in. That causes a lot of people to stop searching altogether. If there was someway to make a "Search Entire Forum" option, that would make life a lot easier.

Carrûn · 02-03-2003, 07:54 PM

True, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't bother to search before posting a question - perhaps the search link could be made bold or something.

On the other hand there is the issue of "digging up" old threads, sometimes people feel like that's almost worse than starting a new thread.

Gorwingel · 02-03-2003, 10:40 PM

Maybe we could create a post in the Novices and Newcomers section that would be "101 basic things that you need to know about LOTR and the world of J.R.R Tolkien", I think that would be helpful. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

The Fifth · 02-03-2003, 10:48 PM

Haven't we covered almost every topic in Tolkien? Almost? Then there must not be much left to talk about, so as a result, threads are often repeated. There will be a few unanswered, creative questions every now and then, but those seem to be rare ... but I'm not that reliable, I haven't visited the Books forum in Ages! But when I did visit, it was always the same/similar kinds of things.

Think ... we just might run out of topics to talk about, and we'll be going in circles. What should we do next? Delete all the old threads, then start fresh ones and discuss them all over again? And if we run out again?

By the way, that '101 things you need to know about Tolkien' idea is good, but it will completely ruin the point of having to manually discuss the things, since they're all conveniently listed there.

[ February 03, 2003: Message edited by: The Fifth ]

Estelyn Telcontar · 02-03-2003, 11:52 PM

The problem with any information thread is that the people who need it are the ones who will not read it. Thanks for all your suggestions - the admins and mods take them seriously and will consider them. Please let us take care of official announcements; if other members start doing that, there will be even more redundant topics. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] If you have specific complaints, PM or e-mail the moderator for that forum.

One more thing - let's stay welcoming and friendly to newcomers who don't know the ropes of the site yet. They will either learn or fade away...

Elendur · 02-04-2003, 12:34 AM

I am considering making a thread that would give the basic topic of all the threads in The Books section. Obviously it is a very big undertaking which would require reading the threads just to make sure they talk about what the title says. So I dont know. I might though. It would give me a good chance to see all the discussions. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

One problem is that even after all the threads had been catelogged, there would always be more and more threads. Unless an active person kept the catalog going, things would get unorganized and it would take a long time to fix things. Im sure some mod could do that though.

Give me a few days to test out this catalog and I will see how things turn out.

There are currently about 2,100 threads... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: Elendur ]

**lindil** · 02-04-2003, 04:34 PM

Elendur, I posted a link to this thread, giving some small measure of support to the general idea, in the Mod Gorthad forum.

I think for the book forum it is def worth trying, but it couldnot of course be an 'official thread' unless so adopted by the Mod of the forum or the admins. But I see no reason not to try it and see what you come up with.

Legolas · 02-04-2003, 08:39 PM

This has already been in progress for sometime. If you'll notice, there's a link to it in the menus of the main site on the right - 'Middle-earth FAQ.' Looks like those who are starting topics about redundant topics should start looking around themselves... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Sharku announced this project a little while ago here.

[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

burrahobbit · 02-05-2003, 02:29 AM

I blame the situation in Rome.

Merri · 02-05-2003, 07:47 AM

I agree with Estelyn- the people who need such threads won't read it.

Why else would we still have dozens of 'How do I learn Elvish' threads despite the 'If You Want To Learn Elvish, Look No Further' thread?

Why else would we still have loads of 'Hi, I'm New' threads despite the 'NEWBIE THREAD'?

Maybe it would work if we made those threads 'sticky' posts?

Rimbaud · 02-05-2003, 09:26 AM

People = stupid.
burra = should be king.

mark12_30 · 02-05-2003, 09:42 AM

Rimbaud, ssssshhhhhh. Just don't tell burra that he isn't king, and he will never know.

LePetitChoux · 02-05-2003, 11:45 AM

I thought burra was female... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

Rimbaud · 02-05-2003, 11:53 AM

You are very perceptive indeed.

[ February 05, 2003: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 02-05-2003, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Haven't we covered almost every topic in Tolkien?

No.

burrahobbit · 02-05-2003, 02:05 PM

I am the king of France.

Amanaduial the archer · 02-05-2003, 02:09 PM

If that makes you happy Burra...

Quote:

I see another thread about religion and Lord of the Rings, I'll...

I disagree. I think those threads are actually interesting, and deeper than so much of the uselessness sometimes found, like the endless "101" lists.

LePetitChoux · 02-05-2003, 02:09 PM

The LotR FAQ is useful, BUT, not to the leggy-bopper part of the member congregation, who
a)probably won't bother to visit it
b)probably won't understand it
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I think a sticky links thread would be a good idea, because, although the N&N forum may be less "advanced" than,say, the Books.

burrahobbit · 02-05-2003, 03:40 PM

Quote:

I disagree.

Me too. They are all the same and fairly well off topic. Praise Jesus and amen, again and again.

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-05-2003, 04:26 PM

Quote:

I think a sticky links thread would be a good idea, because, although the N&N forum may be less "advanced" than,say, the Books.

Not sure whether it would achieve much, given the number of "Hello, I'm new here" threads started when the "NEW MEMBERS INTRODUCE YOURSELVES HERE" thread is right at the top.

How about a neon flashing screen that comes up after New Members have first registered saying PLEASE READ FAQ THREADS BEFORE STARTING TO POST ...

... or would that be a wee bit patronising? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Orual · 02-05-2003, 09:20 PM

Oh, I don't mean the ones that actually say something. I just mean the ones that go "Have you noticed any religious symbolism in the Lord of the Rings?" Yes, I think we have...

VanimaEdhel · 02-06-2003, 06:33 PM

Quote:

How about a neon flashing screen that comes up after New Members have first registered saying PLEASE READ FAQ THREADS BEFORE STARTING TO POST ...

They practically have that, as the basic rules are kept at the top of the Forum list.

And remember: a lot of the new people don't even read what has been said before they start typing in their answer to a question on the Forums, so you can't expect them to take time out to read the rules. Now, if we had 100 pop-up's in a row, linking people who have just registered to the rules, and they can only turn the page off after 20 minutes, that might be something...

And I thought that burra was the king of the Blue Mists...meanwhile, we all know I'm the Goddess, but that's another story...

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-06-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

And remember: a lot of the new people don't even read what has been said before they start typing in their answer to a question on the Forums, so you can't expect them to take time out to read the rules.

... or starting new topics. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I think it must be some sort of desire to create: "I'm not going to read anything that anyone else has said, just post my new topic and see what happens". [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Personally, I spent quite a while looking through all the threads before even joining. Mind you, I still managed to start a topic that had already been covered about 10 times with my first new topic. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Bill Ferny · 02-08-2003, 12:15 AM

There are many threads started that are intended to go a different direction than other threads that may on the surface appear similar or the same. In addition, what one person sees, another person due to prejudice will not. Take “god threads”, for example. There are those who would dismiss every single one out of hand without reading, thinking that they don’t say anything but “everything is relative and you can’t prove god exists, blah and blah and blah…” That’s fine. If it doesn’t float your boat move on and let live. However, look at this comment: “Oh, I don't mean the ones that actually say something.” So who’s the mind police making that particular judgement? No offense to the moderators, but I seriously doubt if any of you have PhDs in theology.

This thread about censorship comes to mind. It might be a good idea to review that particular thread to gauge the minds of your customers. That being said, far be it from me to place limits on the moderator’s ability to censure their own forum! However, I think a responsible form of censorship would be limiting the ability of new members to start new threads in certain sections. I think that in the book’s section, for example, only those who have… say… 500+ posts and pass an IQ test should be allowed to start new threads. Well, maybe that IQ test isn’t such a good idea, but someone who has posted 500+ times, even nonsense posts, will at least have an idea about what has been posted in the recent past. Sure, it will enrage a lot of Tolkien experts out there, but so be it. Since when does any form of censorship not enrage (I really hate that particular word) a certain group of people?

Diamond18 · 02-08-2003, 02:10 AM

500 seems like an awful lot. You yourself have only 254! I'm afraid a rule like that would only encourage lots of nonsense posts and topic starters in other sections of the forum to beef up post numbers. And besides, many smart people steeped in Tolkien lore don't have enough time to spare in their "real lives" to make as many posts as say, a lazy lump like me. I don't even know how many posts I have, anymore, since I stopped noticing my tally when it became just a flashing reminder that I have way too much time on my hands. But I've noticed that some other people who have been around far longer and make far better posts aren't even Ghost Princes yet.

Ah heh...summary, 'nother apple fer ye, Bill. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

HerenIstarion · 02-08-2003, 03:33 AM

Bill, can't agree with neither of your points. My very third post on this fora occurred in the Silmarillion subforum, even more exigent than the Books is. In case there were such restrictions, I would not have been BD member up to now. As for the IQ test, what criteria would be used - general or Tolkien related? And what about not native English speakers (in case of general), who, being brought up in different environment, would find it the way far more difficult to solve. Anyways, as I did state elsewhere, light-headed fans should be risen up by participating in the Books discussions, rather than banned out and so left on their current level

As for repeatedly posting the same topic. Well, that's a bit irritating, but look from the other angle, and you'll see that, say, each of the same old balrog/wings threads is quite different in itself, has different ppl posting and different opinions expressed etc. I agree it should be nice to have them alltogether, but it's not so bad as it is.

If there is no serious discussion in the thread, do not bother yourself posting there, it will die out by itself

thanks

red · 02-08-2003, 10:14 AM

I've also noticed there is a lot of repetitiveness.

Bill Ferny · 02-08-2003, 10:19 AM

Heren, the IQ test comment was tongue in cheek [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. Actually, I agree with both you and Diamond18. As Diamond18 points out there are many people, like myself, who would not be able to start new threads in say the books section. I for one have little time to build up 500 posts in a short amount of time (and even less intelligent things to say). There probably would be people throwing up nonsense posts, and irrelevant crap just to build their numbers. There are people (like Diamond18 and myself) who give a rat’s arse about that number.

However, among relevant choices, this choice still remains a viable one. I for one never post in the Rivised Silm section, nor do I have a desire to do so. I simply do not have the time to research Tolkienology on that level. That’s not to say I don’t often read that section. In fact I use the search engine on that section frequently to research for posts I write in the books section. The same thing goes for the RPG sections. There are probably a lot of people on this forum who feel the same way about the books section. They spend most of their time engaging in discussions in the movies or novices and newcomers, but often use the books section to find answers to questions that might pop up there. I think a lot of people would be upset about such a restriction, but at the same time, I don’t think it would seriously hinder their ability to start new threads in other sections, nor would it hinder their ability to engage in discussions already started in the books section (after all, they would be able to post responses as normal in the books section).

I know under this restriction that I wouldn’t be able to start a new thread in the books section. However, since… I think I joined the forum back in… early September of last year I’ve only started one thread in the books section, and that thread could have waited until I knew more about the subject in general anyway. However, I have contributed to many threads in that section started by others. I for one would not really be overly affected by such a restriction.

As far as nonsense posts go, you will probably have your fair share of them. In fact, we already do. There are even long standing members who have a supreme talent for posting nothing but irrelevant one liners, then lauded for their wit. Its really not that difficult to pass over twit-headed responses, and I think everyone should have a voice, even those who want to post nonsense. As I said, even those who make nonsense posts will at least have a fair idea of the more recent threads that have been started, and will be less likely to start redundant threads. Moderators have always had the ability to delete nonsense from the forum. I doubt that such a restriction would inundate them with new nonsense posts.

In the end, though, such a choice, as has been pointed out is a difficult one, and one that will certainly enrage (errr) a number of people. However, if the moderators of this forum are determined to take the measures needed, one’s that are actually pro-active and relevant, then, no doubt they will be unable to avoid that rage (errr). It depends on whether the moderators think this problem is serious enough to warrant pro-active measures. I, for one, am NOT convinced that the problem is that serious.

However, if others think the problem seriously hinders their ability to use and enjoy the forum, but at the same time wants to avoid the rage (errr) that pro-active measures will inevitably bring about, perhaps the addition of new sections would help to curb the problem. For example, splitting the novices and new comers section into a new comers section and a general Tolkien discussion section, and the addition of a “I have a question” section. This solution is more pro-active than a FAQ thread that we know most people won’t read, but, on the other hand, it also doubles the amount of labor for the moderators.

Anyway, I have apple crisp to make [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

red · 02-08-2003, 10:27 AM

It also seems like people have been repeating themselves.

Cúdae · 02-09-2003, 08:16 PM

**Hides from some repeptitive topics.** I have just returned from absense (sp?) that was long enough have found repeats of some of the topics I left. This seriously bothers me because I will do a search to find the topic I left quickly and find newer topics on the same thing but without the familiarity of what I left. Maybe something that listed the amount of times a certain motif (for instance- theology and/or/in LotR) had been covered, it might discourage some new topic starters and send them on their way to a previously started topic. Or, maybe something else that had links to some of the more influential threads on the 'Downs: ones that helped shape, ones that have attracted thousands [heh], ones that have set minds reeling, seething, or chattering, or even threads that were so off topic newbies should see them to get a taste of what <u>not</u> to post.
There are my tiny little ideas.

--Aran/Cúdae

HerenIstarion · 02-10-2003, 12:22 AM

Quote:

It also seems like people have been repeating themselves

it also seems like someone is trying to be laconic like someone else I know...

Bill, thanks

**The Saucepan Man** · 10-07-2004, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ferny

This thread about censorship comes to mind.

How ironic that the link is to a topic which does not exist.

Imladris · 10-07-2004, 09:11 AM

I know that this is a very old topic, but I would like to suggest something.

I know this forum that has a hidden board that a guest can't see until that guest becomes a member. Furthermore, when you reach a certain number of posts, there is a second forum that you can have access to.

I was thinking that maybe the BDs could create a Rule Forum/FAQ at the very top of the page. This forum would be locked for posting, as would all of the others (maybe The Books, N&N, etc could even be hidden). The only way the member could post (or see) the other forums would be to read the Rules. However, the final rule would go along these lines:

If you have finished reading the Rules and would now like to become an active member, please PM[list of mods]. Or, if that would take too much time and flood the PM boxes, maybe they could click for an activation email, or something.

Would all this be too complicated?

EDIT: if they had to read the rules to figure out how to activate the account, at least that way they are at least being read. I think, also, it might thin the amount of registered users...

*shrugs*

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-07-2004, 12:13 PM

Saucy, the old links don't work since the forum's move, though almost all of the the threads are still existent. I've gone back and "repaired" some links on important threads, so that they lead to the right topic on the current forum.

Aside from that, I think we don't have a huge problem with redundancy now, since the moderators normally keep an eye on new threads and/or "old" members point the way to previous discussions. Our membership is no longer growing so quickly that we have problems keeping up. Actually, sometimes it's a problem when old threads are revived, if the main reason for their existence is no longer an issue!

HerenIstarion · 10-29-2004, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imladris

Furthermore, when you reach a certain number of posts, there is a second forum that you can have access to

If you mean private sil under 'the second' here, it is not accessible merely because of number of posts, I believe, but by means of the participant-to-be expressing the wish to have an access, or even a wish to participate in the project to one of its mods (lindil or Aiwendil)

Under the first one you mean mods forum, right?

Imladris · 10-29-2004, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HI

Under the first one you mean mods forum, right?

No, I'm not talking about the BD forum. The topic was how to get minimize the redundant newbie posting (which isn't really that bad but I had to have my two cents in)...and I was just using another forum (the one with the hidden forum that you can get access when your posts reach a certain number) to give the admins of the Barrowdowns a few ideas.

So...I should learn to be more clear...is what I'm saying...*rolls eyes at self*

HerenIstarion · 10-30-2004, 01:54 AM

Sorry, my mistake. I thought 'this' meant BD. My apologies

Imladris · 10-30-2004, 11:38 AM

No apology needed. 'Twas I who made the heinous grammar mistake.

So...I apoligize...

02-03-2003, 05:11 PM	#1
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	Redundancy on the rise Have you noticed how the number of pointless topics has risen in the past, well, week, let alone month! I would like to ask permission to post a "Golden-No-No's" thread, with all the most common redundancies like "Who is Tom Bombadil?" or "Do Balrogs ave Wings?" or "Is there any religious symbolism behind LotR?" or "Who is your favourite [insert race here]?" I think it might help, if only very slightly. Or something, at least, has to be done, because sometimes B-D almost feels like one of those other slack, un-strict, post-what-you-want Tolkien forums. Which we don't want. ~LePetitChoux P.S. I said ALMOST, I wasn't accusing it! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

02-03-2003, 05:19 PM	#2
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 868	Bonne idée, LePetitChoux. But even with the all-caps "NEW MEMBERS--POST HERE" thread, I saw a "Hey, I'm new" thread today. Still, it couldn't hurt to put a new one up, because if I see another thread about religion and Lord of the Rings, I'll... ...I'll do something, and it won't be pleasant. I'll get back with you on the specifics. If you need any help, just PM me. I think that such a thread would be an excellent idea. ~~Orual~~ __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

02-03-2003, 06:21 PM	#3
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	Awww...so you mean my Tolkien Religion speech that I have stored away on a file, I began to use it so much, will come to disuse? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] I agree...is there somewhere we could somehow have an alphabetical list of every topic that's been covered to death in every room? Sort of like a list of, "Best and Worst Topics We've Covered and will Never Discuss Again, Thank You Very Much!" Also, because it is impossible in the "Search" feature to search the entire site. You can only search one room at a time, which gets tedious if you do not know which room a topic would be in. That causes a lot of people to stop searching altogether. If there was someway to make a "Search Entire Forum" option, that would make life a lot easier. __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

02-03-2003, 07:54 PM	#4
Carrûn Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you, counting to 3 Posts: 234	True, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't bother to search before posting a question - perhaps the search link could be made bold or something. On the other hand there is the issue of "digging up" old threads, sometimes people feel like that's almost worse than starting a new thread. __________________ "Dic, hospes, Spartae, nos te hic vidisse iacentes dum sanctis patriae legibus obsequimur."

02-03-2003, 10:40 PM	#5
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Maybe we could create a post in the Novices and Newcomers section that would be "101 basic things that you need to know about LOTR and the world of J.R.R Tolkien", I think that would be helpful. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

02-03-2003, 10:48 PM	#6
The Fifth Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mordor Posts: 427	Haven't we covered almost every topic in Tolkien? Almost? Then there must not be much left to talk about, so as a result, threads are often repeated. There will be a few unanswered, creative questions every now and then, but those seem to be rare ... but I'm not that reliable, I haven't visited the Books forum in Ages! But when I did visit, it was always the same/similar kinds of things. Think ... we just might run out of topics to talk about, and we'll be going in circles. What should we do next? Delete all the old threads, then start fresh ones and discuss them all over again? And if we run out again? By the way, that '101 things you need to know about Tolkien' idea is good, but it will completely ruin the point of having to manually discuss the things, since they're all conveniently listed there. [ February 03, 2003: Message edited by: The Fifth ] __________________ - Ringwraith #5, Servant of the Eye

02-03-2003, 11:52 PM	#7
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	The problem with any information thread is that the people who need it are the ones who will not read it. Thanks for all your suggestions - the admins and mods take them seriously and will consider them. Please let us take care of official announcements; if other members start doing that, there will be even more redundant topics. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] If you have specific complaints, PM or e-mail the moderator for that forum. One more thing - let's stay welcoming and friendly to newcomers who don't know the ropes of the site yet. They will either learn or fade away... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

02-04-2003, 12:34 AM	#8
Elendur Wight Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Arnor Posts: 200	I am considering making a thread that would give the basic topic of all the threads in The Books section. Obviously it is a very big undertaking which would require reading the threads just to make sure they talk about what the title says. So I dont know. I might though. It would give me a good chance to see all the discussions. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] One problem is that even after all the threads had been catelogged, there would always be more and more threads. Unless an active person kept the catalog going, things would get unorganized and it would take a long time to fix things. Im sure some mod could do that though. Give me a few days to test out this catalog and I will see how things turn out. There are currently about 2,100 threads... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: Elendur ] __________________ Son of Isildur.

02-04-2003, 04:34 PM	#9
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Elendur, I posted a link to this thread, giving some small measure of support to the general idea, in the Mod Gorthad forum. I think for the book forum it is def worth trying, but it couldnot of course be an 'official thread' unless so adopted by the Mod of the forum or the admins. But I see no reason not to try it and see what you come up with. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

02-04-2003, 08:39 PM	#10
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	This has already been in progress for sometime. If you'll notice, there's a link to it in the menus of the main site on the right - 'Middle-earth FAQ.' Looks like those who are starting topics about redundant topics should start looking around themselves... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Sharku announced this project a little while ago here. [ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-05-2003, 02:29 AM	#11
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	I blame the situation in Rome. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

02-05-2003, 07:47 AM	#12
Merri Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Shire Posts: 221	I agree with Estelyn- the people who need such threads won't read it. Why else would we still have dozens of 'How do I learn Elvish' threads despite the 'If You Want To Learn Elvish, Look No Further' thread? Why else would we still have loads of 'Hi, I'm New' threads despite the 'NEWBIE THREAD'? Maybe it would work if we made those threads 'sticky' posts? __________________ Knowledge is just opinion that you trust enough to act upon. -Children of the Mind, by Orson Scott Card.

02-05-2003, 09:26 AM	#13
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	People = stupid. burra = should be king. __________________ And all the rest is literature

02-05-2003, 09:42 AM	#14
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Rimbaud, ssssshhhhhh. Just don't tell burra that he isn't king, and he will never know. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

02-05-2003, 11:45 AM	#15
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	I thought burra was female... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

02-05-2003, 11:53 AM	#16
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	You are very perceptive indeed. [ February 05, 2003: Message edited by: Rimbaud ] __________________ And all the rest is literature

02-05-2003, 02:05 PM	#18
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	I am the king of France. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

02-05-2003, 02:09 PM	#20
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	The LotR FAQ is useful, BUT, not to the leggy-bopper part of the member congregation, who a)probably won't bother to visit it b)probably won't understand it [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I think a sticky links thread would be a good idea, because, although the N&N forum may be less "advanced" than,say, the Books. __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

02-05-2003, 09:20 PM	#23
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 868	Oh, I don't mean the ones that actually say something. I just mean the ones that go "Have you noticed any religious symbolism in the Lord of the Rings?" Yes, I think we have... __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

02-08-2003, 12:15 AM	#26
Bill Ferny Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bree Posts: 390	There are many threads started that are intended to go a different direction than other threads that may on the surface appear similar or the same. In addition, what one person sees, another person due to prejudice will not. Take “god threads”, for example. There are those who would dismiss every single one out of hand without reading, thinking that they don’t say anything but “everything is relative and you can’t prove god exists, blah and blah and blah…” That’s fine. If it doesn’t float your boat move on and let live. However, look at this comment: “Oh, I don't mean the ones that actually say something.” So who’s the mind police making that particular judgement? No offense to the moderators, but I seriously doubt if any of you have PhDs in theology. This thread about censorship comes to mind. It might be a good idea to review that particular thread to gauge the minds of your customers. That being said, far be it from me to place limits on the moderator’s ability to censure their own forum! However, I think a responsible form of censorship would be limiting the ability of new members to start new threads in certain sections. I think that in the book’s section, for example, only those who have… say… 500+ posts and pass an IQ test should be allowed to start new threads. Well, maybe that IQ test isn’t such a good idea, but someone who has posted 500+ times, even nonsense posts, will at least have an idea about what has been posted in the recent past. Sure, it will enrage a lot of Tolkien experts out there, but so be it. Since when does any form of censorship not enrage (I really hate that particular word) a certain group of people? __________________ I prefer Gillaume d’Férny, connoisseur of fine fruit.

02-08-2003, 02:10 AM	#27
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	500 seems like an awful lot. You yourself have only 254! I'm afraid a rule like that would only encourage lots of nonsense posts and topic starters in other sections of the forum to beef up post numbers. And besides, many smart people steeped in Tolkien lore don't have enough time to spare in their "real lives" to make as many posts as say, a lazy lump like me. I don't even know how many posts I have, anymore, since I stopped noticing my tally when it became just a flashing reminder that I have way too much time on my hands. But I've noticed that some other people who have been around far longer and make far better posts aren't even Ghost Princes yet. Ah heh...summary, 'nother apple fer ye, Bill. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

02-08-2003, 03:33 AM	#28
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	Bill, can't agree with neither of your points. My very third post on this fora occurred in the Silmarillion subforum, even more exigent than the Books is. In case there were such restrictions, I would not have been BD member up to now. As for the IQ test, what criteria would be used - general or Tolkien related? And what about not native English speakers (in case of general), who, being brought up in different environment, would find it the way far more difficult to solve. Anyways, as I did state elsewhere, light-headed fans should be risen up by participating in the Books discussions, rather than banned out and so left on their current level As for repeatedly posting the same topic. Well, that's a bit irritating, but look from the other angle, and you'll see that, say, each of the same old balrog/wings threads is quite different in itself, has different ppl posting and different opinions expressed etc. I agree it should be nice to have them alltogether, but it's not so bad as it is. If there is no serious discussion in the thread, do not bother yourself posting there, it will die out by itself thanks __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

02-08-2003, 10:14 AM	#29
red Spirit of Mischief Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Land of the free and home of the brave Posts: 366	I've also noticed there is a lot of repetitiveness. __________________ "Cats are like greatness: Some people are born into cat-loving families, some achieve cats, and some have cats thrust upon them." -William H. A. Carr

02-08-2003, 10:19 AM	#30
Bill Ferny Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bree Posts: 390	Heren, the IQ test comment was tongue in cheek [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. Actually, I agree with both you and Diamond18. As Diamond18 points out there are many people, like myself, who would not be able to start new threads in say the books section. I for one have little time to build up 500 posts in a short amount of time (and even less intelligent things to say). There probably would be people throwing up nonsense posts, and irrelevant crap just to build their numbers. There are people (like Diamond18 and myself) who give a rat’s arse about that number. However, among relevant choices, this choice still remains a viable one. I for one never post in the Rivised Silm section, nor do I have a desire to do so. I simply do not have the time to research Tolkienology on that level. That’s not to say I don’t often read that section. In fact I use the search engine on that section frequently to research for posts I write in the books section. The same thing goes for the RPG sections. There are probably a lot of people on this forum who feel the same way about the books section. They spend most of their time engaging in discussions in the movies or novices and newcomers, but often use the books section to find answers to questions that might pop up there. I think a lot of people would be upset about such a restriction, but at the same time, I don’t think it would seriously hinder their ability to start new threads in other sections, nor would it hinder their ability to engage in discussions already started in the books section (after all, they would be able to post responses as normal in the books section). I know under this restriction that I wouldn’t be able to start a new thread in the books section. However, since… I think I joined the forum back in… early September of last year I’ve only started one thread in the books section, and that thread could have waited until I knew more about the subject in general anyway. However, I have contributed to many threads in that section started by others. I for one would not really be overly affected by such a restriction. As far as nonsense posts go, you will probably have your fair share of them. In fact, we already do. There are even long standing members who have a supreme talent for posting nothing but irrelevant one liners, then lauded for their wit. Its really not that difficult to pass over twit-headed responses, and I think everyone should have a voice, even those who want to post nonsense. As I said, even those who make nonsense posts will at least have a fair idea of the more recent threads that have been started, and will be less likely to start redundant threads. Moderators have always had the ability to delete nonsense from the forum. I doubt that such a restriction would inundate them with new nonsense posts. In the end, though, such a choice, as has been pointed out is a difficult one, and one that will certainly enrage (errr) a number of people. However, if the moderators of this forum are determined to take the measures needed, one’s that are actually pro-active and relevant, then, no doubt they will be unable to avoid that rage (errr). It depends on whether the moderators think this problem is serious enough to warrant pro-active measures. *I, for one, am NOT* convinced that the problem is that serious.** However, if others think the problem seriously hinders their ability to use and enjoy the forum, but at the same time wants to avoid the rage (errr) that pro-active measures will inevitably bring about, perhaps the addition of new sections would help to curb the problem. For example, splitting the novices and new comers section into a new comers section and a general Tolkien discussion section, and the addition of a “I have a question” section. This solution is more pro-active than a FAQ thread that we know most people won’t read, but, on the other hand, it also doubles the amount of labor for the moderators. Anyway, I have apple crisp to make [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ I prefer Gillaume d’Férny, connoisseur of fine fruit.

02-08-2003, 10:27 AM	#31
red Spirit of Mischief Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Land of the free and home of the brave Posts: 366	It also seems like people have been repeating themselves. __________________ "Cats are like greatness: Some people are born into cat-loving families, some achieve cats, and some have cats thrust upon them." -William H. A. Carr

02-09-2003, 08:16 PM	#32
Cúdae Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 160	Hides from some repeptitive topics. I have just returned from absense (sp?) that was long enough have found repeats of some of the topics I left. This seriously bothers me because I will do a search to find the topic I left quickly and find newer topics on the same thing but without the familiarity of what I left. Maybe something that listed the amount of times a certain motif (for instance- theology and/or/in LotR) had been covered, it might discourage some new topic starters and send them on their way to a previously started topic. Or, maybe something else that had links to some of the more influential threads on the 'Downs: ones that helped shape, ones that have attracted thousands [heh], ones that have set minds reeling, seething, or chattering, or even threads that were so off topic newbies should see them to get a taste of what <u>not</u> to post. There are my tiny little ideas. --Aran/Cúdae __________________ "And if you listen very hard/ The tune will come to you at last/ When all are one and one is all/ To be a rock and not to roll." --Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven"

10-07-2004, 09:11 AM	#35
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	I know that this is a very old topic, but I would like to suggest something. I know this forum that has a hidden board that a guest can't see until that guest becomes a member. Furthermore, when you reach a certain number of posts, there is a second forum that you can have access to. I was thinking that maybe the BDs could create a Rule Forum/FAQ at the very top of the page. This forum would be locked for posting, as would all of the others (maybe The Books, N&N, etc could even be hidden). The only way the member could post (or see) the other forums would be to read the Rules. However, the final rule would go along these lines: If you have finished reading the Rules and would now like to become an active member, please PM[list of mods]. Or, if that would take too much time and flood the PM boxes, maybe they could click for an activation email, or something. Would all this be too complicated? EDIT: if they had to read the rules to figure out how to activate the account, at least that way they are at least being read. I think, also, it might thin the amount of registered users... shrugs __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry. Last edited by Imladris; 10-07-2004 at 09:34 AM.

10-07-2004, 12:13 PM	#36
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Saucy, the old links don't work since the forum's move, though almost all of the the threads are still existent. I've gone back and "repaired" some links on important threads, so that they lead to the right topic on the current forum. Aside from that, I think we don't have a huge problem with redundancy now, since the moderators normally keep an eye on new threads and/or "old" members point the way to previous discussions. Our membership is no longer growing so quickly that we have problems keeping up. Actually, sometimes it's a problem when old threads are revived, if the main reason for their existence is no longer an issue! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-30-2004, 01:54 AM	#39
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	Sorry, my mistake. I thought 'this' meant BD. My apologies __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

10-30-2004, 11:38 AM	#40
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	No apology needed. 'Twas I who made the heinous grammar mistake. So...I apoligize... __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.