The seven thains of Morgoth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 01-12-2002, 03:48 PM

In the Book of Lost Tales version of the mythology, there are 'balrogs a thousand'; these balrogs ride [mechanical] dragons and are slain by the dozen by the Elves. These are clearly very different from the later demonic, possibly winged, demons of fire and darkness. The balrog that appears in LotR is clearly much more powerful, but the 'hosts' of balrogs remained in the first drafts of the Quenta Silmarillion and Annals of Aman from the 1950s.

There is a passage in the Annals of Aman, concerning the Battle of the Powers, that says that 'a host of balrogs' came forth and were slain by Manwe. This was emended to 'the Balrogs, the last servants that remained to him [Melkor]', or something like that. There is also a marginal note here that says 'It should not be supposed that more than 3 or at most 7 ever existed'. This is the only reference to the number 7.

So it may be that only 7 balrogs ever existed. Or this may have merely been a passing idea, or perhaps even a mistake (there are several in his later writings). The number 3, his first suggestion clearly doesn't work (one slain by Ecthelion, one by Glorfindel, one by Gandalf, leaves none to have died in the War of Wrath), so perhaps the number 7 needs to be taken with a grain of salt as well. On the other hand, it's clear that the thousands of Balrogs would not have remained once they had taken on their later importance. The biggest problem with the number 7 (as I see it) is that it allows only three at most to have been killed in the Battle of the Powers.

This 'Balrog question' is currently the biggest stumbling block over at the Revised Silmarillion project. If anyone has any ideas or opinions on the subject, we'd love to hear them from you; as always, all are welcome to contribute.

01-12-2002, 03:48 PM	#7
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	In the Book of Lost Tales version of the mythology, there are 'balrogs a thousand'; these balrogs ride [mechanical] dragons and are slain by the dozen by the Elves. These are clearly very different from the later demonic, possibly winged, demons of fire and darkness. The balrog that appears in LotR is clearly much more powerful, but the 'hosts' of balrogs remained in the first drafts of the Quenta Silmarillion and Annals of Aman from the 1950s. There is a passage in the Annals of Aman, concerning the Battle of the Powers, that says that 'a host of balrogs' came forth and were slain by Manwe. This was emended to 'the Balrogs, the last servants that remained to him [Melkor]', or something like that. There is also a marginal note here that says 'It should not be supposed that more than 3 or at most 7 ever existed'. This is the only reference to the number 7. So it may be that only 7 balrogs ever existed. Or this may have merely been a passing idea, or perhaps even a mistake (there are several in his later writings). The number 3, his first suggestion clearly doesn't work (one slain by Ecthelion, one by Glorfindel, one by Gandalf, leaves none to have died in the War of Wrath), so perhaps the number 7 needs to be taken with a grain of salt as well. On the other hand, it's clear that the thousands of Balrogs would not have remained once they had taken on their later importance. The biggest problem with the number 7 (as I see it) is that it allows only three at most to have been killed in the Battle of the Powers. This 'Balrog question' is currently the biggest stumbling block over at the Revised Silmarillion project. If anyone has any ideas or opinions on the subject, we'd love to hear them from you; as always, all are welcome to contribute.