Derry Dol, Indeed - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Mister Underhill*** · 09-04-2003, 08:56 AM

As Sharkû has mentioned, the statement “Tom is Eä or an embodiment thereof” doesn’t have much meaning. Eä is Eä. Tom is Tom. How can Tom be “the earth” or “the material universe”? And if he’s an “embodiment” of it only, again what does that mean? As the Old Man has stated, this may be said in some sense of all things: “For dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” (Gen 3:19) There are river spirits, mountain spirits, tree spirits, rock spirits (apparently – c.f. Rimb’s reference to rock memories) – where does a generalized “embodiment of Eä” fit in to all this? What aspects of Eä does he personify?

In any case, I would add these few items which seem problematic for the theory, such as it is:

“Power to defy our Enemy is not in him, unless such power is in the earth itself.”

This quote is taken out of context. Considered with the paragraphs surrounding it, it may be read to mean that Bombadil does not have the power (or perhaps even the temperament) to resist Sauron, and will fall unless the very ground that he occupies were able to resist the power of Sauron and his Ring. Using this statement to equate Tom with the earth doesn’t hold up. Following on the heels of, “I know little of Iarwain save the name...”, Galdor’s words lack the authority from which such bold and sweeping conclusions may be drawn.

Gandalf: “...he would not understand the need [to safeguard the Ring].”

Surely a sentient embodiment of Eä would have an understanding of the need considering Sauron’s ability to “torture and destroy the very hills”.

Gandalf: “And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them.”

Has the spirit of Eä (if such an idea even has any real meaning) withdrawn from Lothlorien? From the fields of Rohan? Even from Mordor, where fire from “the heart of the earth” wells at Orodruin?

Gandalf: “But he cannot alter the Ring itself, nor break its power over others.”

Eä, in fact, holds the only power that can alter the Ring and break its power over others.

[ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: Mister Underhill ]

09-04-2003, 08:56 AM	#22
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	As Sharkû has mentioned, the statement “Tom is Eä or an embodiment thereof” doesn’t have much meaning. Eä is Eä. Tom is Tom. How can Tom be “the earth” or “the material universe”? And if he’s an “embodiment” of it only, again what does that mean? As the Old Man has stated, this may be said in some sense of all things: “For dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” (Gen 3:19) There are river spirits, mountain spirits, tree spirits, rock spirits (apparently – c.f. Rimb’s reference to rock memories) – where does a generalized “embodiment of Eä” fit in to all this? What aspects of Eä does he personify? In any case, I would add these few items which seem problematic for the theory, such as it is: “Power to defy our Enemy is not in him, unless such power is in the earth itself.” This quote is taken out of context. Considered with the paragraphs surrounding it, it may be read to mean that Bombadil does not have the power (or perhaps even the temperament) to resist Sauron, and will fall unless the very ground that he occupies were able to resist the power of Sauron and his Ring. Using this statement to equate Tom with the earth doesn’t hold up. Following on the heels of, “I know little of Iarwain save the name...”, Galdor’s words lack the authority from which such bold and sweeping conclusions may be drawn. Gandalf: “...he would not understand the need [to safeguard the Ring].” Surely a sentient embodiment of Eä would have an understanding of the need considering Sauron’s ability to “torture and destroy the very hills”. Gandalf: “And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them.” Has the spirit of Eä (if such an idea even has any real meaning) withdrawn from Lothlorien? From the fields of Rohan? Even from Mordor, where fire from “the heart of the earth” wells at Orodruin? Gandalf: “But he cannot alter the Ring itself, nor break its power over others.” Eä, in fact, holds the only power that can alter the Ring and break its power over others. [ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: Mister Underhill ]