Ancient British cultures reflected in ME

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Well, I'm afraid I can't agree with any of those.

Except, in a different dimensions if you like, this one:

. Are elves celts? Ancient peoples forced into the west by invaders. Tall...

There is one thing. I don't know where you've got the 'tall' idea from, honestly. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] My father happens to be one after all -- Irish -- and I can tell you that Ghan-buri-Ghan would be a better comparison physically. And ancient Celtic society was quite unlike that of the Elves for sure (the jewellery that you mention may be symbolic or something, I suppose, but Celtic jewellery is not like Elvish jewellery).

In the developed mythology, the comparison between Elves and Celts is very insubstantial. However in Lost Tales-era (HoME 1-3) mythology, which is fascinating, you have (inadvertently perhaps [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]) touched upon a principle found in the early writings that could compare Celts with the Eldar. In these writings, the Anglo-Saxon invasions of England displaced the previous Eldarin population -- Britain was Tol Eressea.

So there you go. The earliest mythology, and you probably should read it if you want to look into this, might hold a bit of a paralell there (whether or not unintentional, and I don't think we could really say the same about the others. I can see a viable comparison neither of culture similarities, nor of what they did, in them, sorry. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Very vague indeed... oh well.

3. Are Hobbits Saxons. The main occupants of Britain by the end of the Dark Ages generally peaceable.

As they are the main occupants of Britain now. Not as pure-blood, of course. As has been said though, Hobbits are rather more similar to a 18th or perhap 19th century society, albeit that the same level technological advance had not nearly been reached.

The Rohirrim are the Anglo-Saxons, Auriel. There is certainly a true (and deliberate) paralell there.

All this talk about LotR as a mythology for England, though. What few people seem to realise that it, that is the Lord of the Rings/Silmarillian and later era stage of the mythology development, is really not. The standalone-ness and complexity of the developed writings are their own story, of course with strong links back to the Lost Tales-era roots (HoME 1-3, guys [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]) but are not a mythology for England.

That mythology is the Lost Tales. It is, as Tolkien says, an attempt at

... stories of its (England's) own, bound up with its tongue and soil.

That is to say, England and the modern world (planet Earth as we know it) is actually involved in the story. There are even links to the epic Anglo-Saxon English story Beowulf; they are actually stories of England. Read the Tales and you'll see this.

Lord of the Rings has however nothing to do with Britain or England, or Europe, beyond similarities and visible basings-in-our-world in Middle-Earth. England does not exist. The mythology in fact reached a stage where it broke off from the original aim, that of creating a greater English mythology than what Beowulf could afford. That Tolkien written English mythology, the Books of Lost Tales, should be read to gain an understanding of this.

(That doesn't mean that Middle-Earth things can't represent or be similar to English or British things, of course, but that Lord of the Rings is not the 'English mythology' that people seem to be misled that it is. Tolkien's writings were this once, but in the fully developed stage were not.)
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[ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: Gwaihir the Windlord ]