Tolkien and Catholic Saints - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 06-15-2002, 09:50 PM

Good evening, The Silver-shod Muse, I would not use Beowulf and other Old English poems as example of pre-Christian literature. They are, in fact, quite fascinating for the ways in which they blend both the old warrior codes and the new faith. It is the very liminality of those works which I think Tolkien drew upon in creating his works. As for what the meaning might be found in giving Goldberry's candles the colours of the papacy, why it strikes me as being simply another way in which to help establish the sense that here in the House of Bombadil, where Frodo finds a special contentedness, there is a shepherd with strength to resist foes and to interpret natural law. Old Tom and Goldberry share that grace.

burrahobbit, this stricture against Allegory is an old chestnut always dragged out whenever the possibility of figuration is discussed in Tolkien's work. I take it to refer strictly to the genre of Allegory, like C.S. Lewis', which Tolkien did not like and which LOTR does not ressemble at all. I don't think it can be taken to dismiss all kinds of symbolic interpretations. Certainly Tolkien's analysis in "Of Fairy Stories" posits an ulterior or hierarchical level of movement between a sub-creation or secondary world and a primary world. It is this kind of fluid movement and possibility provided by the "Perilous Realm' which, I think, makes possible the sense that Tolkien writes with plenitude of meaning.

Respectfully,
Bethberry

[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

06-15-2002, 09:50 PM	#12
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Good evening, The Silver-shod Muse, I would not use Beowulf and other Old English poems as example of pre-Christian literature. They are, in fact, quite fascinating for the ways in which they blend both the old warrior codes and the new faith. It is the very liminality of those works which I think Tolkien drew upon in creating his works. As for what the meaning might be found in giving Goldberry's candles the colours of the papacy, why it strikes me as being simply another way in which to help establish the sense that here in the House of Bombadil, where Frodo finds a special contentedness, there is a shepherd with strength to resist foes and to interpret natural law. Old Tom and Goldberry share that grace. burrahobbit, this stricture against Allegory is an old chestnut always dragged out whenever the possibility of figuration is discussed in Tolkien's work. I take it to refer strictly to the genre of Allegory, like C.S. Lewis', which Tolkien did not like and which LOTR does not ressemble at all. I don't think it can be taken to dismiss all kinds of symbolic interpretations. Certainly Tolkien's analysis in "Of Fairy Stories" posits an ulterior or hierarchical level of movement between a sub-creation or secondary world and a primary world. It is this kind of fluid movement and possibility provided by the "Perilous Realm' which, I think, makes possible the sense that Tolkien writes with plenitude of meaning. Respectfully, Bethberry [ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ] __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.