Tolkien & the Great War - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 11-14-2003, 04:02 AM

A few years back BBC radio did a production of Shadowlands by William Nicholson, the story of the relationship between CS Lewis & Joy Gresham. It started with these lines

'If God loves us, why does he allow us to suffer so much? War, Pestilence, famine. Now, last night, as you know, a No1 bus drove into a column of young Royal Marine Cadets in Chatham & killed 23 of them. They were 10 year old boys, marching & singing on their way to a boxing match. The road was unlit, the driver didn't see them. It was a terrible accident. No-one was to blame. Except Him. Now, where was He? Why didn't He stop it? What possible point can there be to such a tragedy? Isn't God supposed to be 'good', Isn't he supposed to love us?

Now that's the nub of the matter. Love. What do we mean by 'love'? I think I'm right in saying that by 'love' most of us mean either kindness, or being 'in love'. But when we say God 'loves' us, I don't think we mean God is 'in love' with us, do we? Not sitting by the telephone, writing us letters - 'I love you madly, God' (kisses & hugs!). No.

Perhaps we mean a 'kind' God. Kindness is the desire to see others happy. Not happy in this way, or that, but just 'happy'. Not so much a 'father' in Heaven, as a 'grandfather' in Heaven! Now, what I'm going to say next may come as a bit of a shock. I don't think God necessarilly wants us to be 'happy'. I think he wants us to be 'loveable' - worthy of love, able to be loved by Him. We don't start off all that loveable, if we're honest.

What makes someone hard to love? Isn't it what is commonly called 'selfishness'? Selfish people are hard to love, because so little love comes out of them. God creates us free - free to be selfish, but He adds a mechanism that will penetrate our selfishness, & wake us up to the presence of others in the world. And that mechanism is called 'suffering'. To put it another way, Pain is God's megaphone to rouse a deaf world.

Why must it be pain? Why can't he wake us gently, with violins, or laughter? Because the dream from which we must be awakened is the dream that All is Well. The most dangerous illusion of them all is the illusion that All is Well. Self sufficiency is the enemy of Salvation. If you are self sufficient you have no need of God. If you have no need of God, you will not seek Him. If you do not seek Him, you will not find Him.

God loves us, so He makes us the gift of suffering. Through suffering we release our hold on the toys of this world, & know that our true good lies in another world. We're like blocks of stone, out of which the sculptor carves the forms of men. The blows of his chisel, which hurt us so much, are what make us perfect. The suffering in the world is not the failure of God's love for us. It is that love in action. For, believe me, this world, which seems so substantial, is no more than the Shadowlands. Real life has not begun yet.'

Perhaps that's relevant here.

11-14-2003, 04:02 AM	#21
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	A few years back BBC radio did a production of Shadowlands by William Nicholson, the story of the relationship between CS Lewis & Joy Gresham. It started with these lines 'If God loves us, why does he allow us to suffer so much? War, Pestilence, famine. Now, last night, as you know, a No1 bus drove into a column of young Royal Marine Cadets in Chatham & killed 23 of them. They were 10 year old boys, marching & singing on their way to a boxing match. The road was unlit, the driver didn't see them. It was a terrible accident. No-one was to blame. Except Him. Now, where was He? Why didn't He stop it? What possible point can there be to such a tragedy? Isn't God supposed to be 'good', Isn't he supposed to love us? Now that's the nub of the matter. Love. What do we mean by 'love'? I think I'm right in saying that by 'love' most of us mean either kindness, or being 'in love'. But when we say God 'loves' us, I don't think we mean God is 'in love' with us, do we? Not sitting by the telephone, writing us letters - 'I love you madly, God' (kisses & hugs!). No. Perhaps we mean a 'kind' God. Kindness is the desire to see others happy. Not happy in this way, or that, but just 'happy'. Not so much a 'father' in Heaven, as a 'grandfather' in Heaven! Now, what I'm going to say next may come as a bit of a shock. I don't think God necessarilly wants us to be 'happy'. I think he wants us to be 'loveable' - worthy of love, able to be loved by Him. We don't start off all that loveable, if we're honest. What makes someone hard to love? Isn't it what is commonly called 'selfishness'? Selfish people are hard to love, because so little love comes out of them. God creates us free - free to be selfish, but He adds a mechanism that will penetrate our selfishness, & wake us up to the presence of others in the world. And that mechanism is called 'suffering'. To put it another way, Pain is God's megaphone to rouse a deaf world. Why must it be pain? Why can't he wake us gently, with violins, or laughter? Because the dream from which we must be awakened is the dream that All is Well. The most dangerous illusion of them all is the illusion that All is Well. Self sufficiency is the enemy of Salvation. If you are self sufficient you have no need of God. If you have no need of God, you will not seek Him. If you do not seek Him, you will not find Him. God loves us, so He makes us the gift of suffering. Through suffering we release our hold on the toys of this world, & know that our true good lies in another world. We're like blocks of stone, out of which the sculptor carves the forms of men. The blows of his chisel, which hurt us so much, are what make us perfect. The suffering in the world is not the failure of God's love for us. It is that love in action. For, believe me, this world, which seems so substantial, is no more than the Shadowlands. Real life has not begun yet.' Perhaps that's relevant here. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."