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Old 10-22-2002, 06:32 AM   #17
GildorInglorion
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 48
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Great post by Burrahobbit, makes sense. But apart from Bombadill.

I believe Ungoliant was "born" before the first elves, but she is most likely dead. And Ungoliants children could not be older than for example Cirdan. When Ungoliant fled Morgoth's Balrogs, and went to Ered Gorgoroth to mate with other spiders, Cirdan already lived.

But what about the spiders that were fathers of Unoliants children, could any of them still have been around in the fourth age?

In my opinion Cirdan had no father and COULD be as (or almost as) old as Finwë, Elwë and Ingwë. But then he should be older than Fangorn, which he is not accordin to LOTR.
This should suggest that all the "Parentless" (first) elves didn''t wake up at the same time.

There is also an interesting passage in Silmarillion that I find very hard to understand; When Aulë tells Yavanna of the dwarves, Yavanna realises that her beloved trees will be cut down. She talks to Manwë and he tells her about spirits that will live in the trees (the ents). He also talkes about the time when these will inhabit the trees, but I find it confusing. Does anyone understand this better?
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