A Question Posted in "Books".......... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Samwise · 08-02-2002, 05:58 PM

......because it is a BOOK-related question.
Hope I don't get yelled at, but if I do, I apologize for making anyone "miffed".

Q. 1: How old was Bilbo when he came back from the "adventure" in the Hobbit?

Q. 2: How old was he when he adopted Frodo--and for that matter, how old was Frodo?

Please don't tell me: "Go look...." because quite frankly, the Appendices and all make my head spin. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] If you happen to know, or it's not too much trouble and you know where to look, I'd appreciate it. TY!

quote:
----------------------------------------------
"I never thought no such thing." answered Sam. "If you want to know, I felt as if I hadn't got nothing on, and I didn't like it. "

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Samwise ]

Child of the 7th Age · 08-02-2002, 06:13 PM

Samwise --

Hi! It's me. I'll try to help. Bilbo was born in 2890. He came back from the quest in 2942. That makes him 52. Frodo was born in 2968; he was 12 when his parents died. He was adopted by Bilbo when he was 21 years old. That was in 2989. Bilbo would then be 99!!! Frodo turned 33 in 3001. That means he lived 12 years with Bilbo. Frodo set out on the Ring quest in 3018 right after his 50th birthday.

LOL. I can personally attest that there is something very "dangerous" in reaching the age of 50, at least if you're a hobbit!

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Kuruharan · 08-02-2002, 06:18 PM

I thought Bilbo adopted Frodo sooner after his parents died?

Child of the 7th Age · 08-02-2002, 06:19 PM

Kuruharan -- I'm pretty sure Frodo was older than 12 when he was adopted. The first page of the book says Bilbo adopted Frodo when Bilbo was 99 (2989). (Bilbo was born in 2890.) That would make Frodo 21 (born in 2968). Before that, Frodo ran around as an orphan in Buckland Hall, stealing mushrooms and such. I imagine his Uncle Bilbo made frequent visits and they hit it off.

It's interesting to think what Frodo did from age 12 to 21, living with a ton of people, but in another sense being pretty much on his own. Remember too that Frodo had few friends his own age. They were younger by a long shot. He literally must have watched his friends like Merry and Pippin grow up in front of him.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit.

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Samwise · 08-02-2002, 06:21 PM

Whoo! Thank you a bunch!

Quote:

She seemed to be looking inside me and asking what I would do if she gave me the chance of flying back home to the Shire to a nice little hole with--with a bit of garden of my own. "

Kuruharan · 08-02-2002, 06:23 PM

The date of the adoption is not in the Appendix B Timeline. (mumble mumble) I got the dates out of the "Complete Guide to Middle Earth" and it said there that Bilbo adopted Frodo in "2980, on the death of his parents." I was wondering if you had something different out of the Text since I don't have my copy of FOTR at the moment.

[Edit] The entry for Bilbo says, "In 2980 on the death of Drogo and Primula Baggins, Bilbo adopted their son Frodo and made him his heir."
The entry for Frodo says, "In 2980, on the death of his parents, he was adopted by his cousin Bilbo and went to live with them in Bag End."

As I said I lent out my copy of FOTR, so I can't look it up. But if it has the dates then we've found a goof in the "Complete Guide."

(Wouldn't be the first time.)

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Child of the 7th Age · 08-02-2002, 06:33 PM

Kuharan -- Let's see. Robert Foster is wrong. Isn't it fun to say that!

Primula died in 1380 shire date according to the Brandybuck family tree in appendix C. Let's see. 3019 equals 1419. So that means 1380 equals 3019-39 years which equals 2980. That would make Frodo twelve (2968-2980). (I HATE MATH.)

I'm sure that Frodo was younger because I've often thought he was about the same age when Tolkien lost his mom. (maybe a year or two difference but not more than that.) I don't think that is coincidence.

sharon

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Kuruharan · 08-02-2002, 06:36 PM

Quote:

I HATE MATH!!!!

Amen to that sister!!!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

But what does it say at the beginning of FOTR? It does seem like Frodo was a bit older than that.

(I'm on the track of a potential goof! Nothing I enjoy more than being on the track of a potential goof! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img])

obloquy · 08-02-2002, 06:41 PM

Quote:

When Bilbo [born 2890] was ninety-nine [2989], he adopted Frodo [born 2968] as his heir, and brought him to live at Bag End; and the hopes of the Sackville-Bagginses were finally dashed. Bilbo and Frodo happened to have the same birthday, September 22nd. ‘You had better come and live here, Frodo my lad,’ said Bilbo one day; ‘and then we can celebrate our birthday-parties comfortably together.’ At that time Frodo was still in his tweens [21], as the hobbits called the irresponsible twenties between childhood and coming of age at thirty-three.

By the way, Kuruharan, check your private messages.

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: obloquy ]

Child of the 7th Age · 08-02-2002, 06:44 PM

On the first page of the book, it does say Frodo was in his tweens when he first came to live with Bilbo. Then it says 12 years passed and Bilbo planed a big party.

On the next two pages, Tolkien mentions the drowning. The only indication of Frodo's age is when Sam says "poor Mr. Frodo only a child and all." No specific age is given but you can figure it out from the death date in the family tree. Isn't this fun? Let's complain to the publisher!! Wonder if they revised it in later editions.

Have to go cook dinner now. sharon

Kuruharan · 08-02-2002, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Isn't this fun? Let's complain to the publisher!! Wonder if they revised it in later editions.

My edition is 1978. (Eecch! It's older than I thought it was.) It may very well be corrected in later prints. If somebody who has a more recent edition would care to chime in...

If we complain can we demand to write the next edition ourselves? There are several things about Dwarves that he did not get quite right that I want fixed!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

(By the way, congratulations on your new title! I like it!)

But now I'm more confused about the issue at hand. If he was in his tweens, would he be older than 12, but he could not be still considered a "child" if he was much older than 12? (I have to go get my FOTR back!!!)

[Edit] My bad! I just re-read obloquy's post and that cleared up my tweens question.

obloquy: Done! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Elrian · 08-02-2002, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Let's see. Robert Foster is wrong. Isn't it fun to say that!

He is usually on the money though, or I haven't read the other erroneous entries. But it was 9 years after their deaths. It's weird that the year of the adoption wasn't mentioned in the tale of years.

Congrats by the way on the new title C7A!

Samwise · 08-02-2002, 08:56 PM

Indeed, Miss Child, congrats!
Goodness, what did I start.....? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Quote:

<center>
My Favorite "Test" Results
Woman-Rosie
LOTR Char- SAM!!! (no--not happy about that)
Hobbit-SAM!!! (ditto...)
Actor-Sean A. (Just as cool)
Middle Earth Race-Hobbit (am I surprised? NO).
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
</center>

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Samwise ]

Kuruharan · 08-02-2002, 09:28 PM

Why, your question led to the exposing of a gaffe in one of the more respectable Middle earth works!

Good job! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I'm still curious to see if a later edition has it corrected, if anyone would care to come forward with that info.

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Child of the 7th Age · 08-03-2002, 09:37 AM

Thanks for everyone's comments on my title! Guess what. I have a December 2001 First Trade Paperback edition my 1978 one fell apart) It is based on the March 1978 revised and enlarged edition (which was presumably revised and enlarged because of Silm). My December 2001 edition says exactly what Kuruharan found under Frodo Baggins:

Quote:

In 2980, on the death of his parents, he was adopted by his cousin Bilbo and went to live with him in Bag End....

So is there a later, revised edition than Dec. 2001, or not? I have a very vague memory in my head that, sometime in the past few months, someone --either the Foster guide or the Tyler one--got in trouble with the Tolkien estate for trying to publish another edition (or printing?) without paying the estate what they should have. That's all I remember. Does anyone have info on this? Or later editions, in general?

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

08-02-2002, 05:58 PM	#1
Samwise Faithful Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Petaluma, Ca Posts: 2,299	A Question Posted in "Books".......... ......because it is a BOOK-related question. Hope I don't get yelled at, but if I do, I apologize for making anyone "miffed". Q. 1: How old was Bilbo when he came back from the "adventure" in the Hobbit? Q. 2: How old was he when he adopted Frodo--and for that matter, how old was Frodo? Please don't tell me: "Go look...." because quite frankly, the Appendices and all make my head spin. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] If you happen to know, or it's not too much trouble and you know where to look, I'd appreciate it. TY! quote: ---------------------------------------------- "I never thought no such thing." answered Sam. "If you want to know, I felt as if I hadn't got nothing on, and I didn't like it. " [ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Samwise ] __________________ Giving thanks unto the Father...In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.~Colossians1:12a,14 * * * * * * * I am Samwise son of Hamfast, if by hoe or trowel I can get these weeds out of your garden, I will.You have my shears!;)

08-02-2002, 06:13 PM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Samwise -- Hi! It's me. I'll try to help. Bilbo was born in 2890. He came back from the quest in 2942. That makes him 52. Frodo was born in 2968; he was 12 when his parents died. He was adopted by Bilbo when he was 21 years old. That was in 2989. Bilbo would then be 99!!! Frodo turned 33 in 3001. That means he lived 12 years with Bilbo. Frodo set out on the Ring quest in 3018 right after his 50th birthday. LOL. I can personally attest that there is something very "dangerous" in reaching the age of 50, at least if you're a hobbit! sharon, the 7th age hobbit [ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

08-02-2002, 06:18 PM	#3
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	I thought Bilbo adopted Frodo sooner after his parents died? __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

08-02-2002, 06:19 PM	#4
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Kuruharan -- I'm pretty sure Frodo was older than 12 when he was adopted. The first page of the book says Bilbo adopted Frodo when Bilbo was 99 (2989). (Bilbo was born in 2890.) That would make Frodo 21 (born in 2968). Before that, Frodo ran around as an orphan in Buckland Hall, stealing mushrooms and such. I imagine his Uncle Bilbo made frequent visits and they hit it off. It's interesting to think what Frodo did from age 12 to 21, living with a ton of people, but in another sense being pretty much on his own. Remember too that Frodo had few friends his own age. They were younger by a long shot. He literally must have watched his friends like Merry and Pippin grow up in front of him. sharon, the 7th age hobbit. [ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

08-02-2002, 06:23 PM	#6
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	The date of the adoption is not in the Appendix B Timeline. (mumble mumble) I got the dates out of the "Complete Guide to Middle Earth" and it said there that Bilbo adopted Frodo in "2980, on the death of his parents." I was wondering if you had something different out of the Text since I don't have my copy of FOTR at the moment. [Edit] The entry for Bilbo says, "In 2980 on the death of Drogo and Primula Baggins, Bilbo adopted their son Frodo and made him his heir." The entry for Frodo says, "In 2980, on the death of his parents, he was adopted by his cousin Bilbo and went to live with them in Bag End." As I said I lent out my copy of FOTR, so I can't look it up. But if it has the dates then we've found a goof in the "Complete Guide." (Wouldn't be the first time.) [ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ] __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

08-02-2002, 06:33 PM	#7
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Kuharan -- Let's see. Robert Foster is wrong. Isn't it fun to say that! Primula died in 1380 shire date according to the Brandybuck family tree in appendix C. Let's see. 3019 equals 1419. So that means 1380 equals 3019-39 years which equals 2980. That would make Frodo twelve (2968-2980). (I HATE MATH.) I'm sure that Frodo was younger because I've often thought he was about the same age when Tolkien lost his mom. (maybe a year or two difference but not more than that.) I don't think that is coincidence. sharon [ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

08-02-2002, 06:44 PM	#10
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	On the first page of the book, it does say Frodo was in his tweens when he first came to live with Bilbo. Then it says 12 years passed and Bilbo planed a big party. On the next two pages, Tolkien mentions the drowning. The only indication of Frodo's age is when Sam says "poor Mr. Frodo only a child and all." No specific age is given but you can figure it out from the death date in the family tree. Isn't this fun? Let's complain to the publisher!! Wonder if they revised it in later editions. Have to go cook dinner now. sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

08-02-2002, 09:28 PM	#14
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	Why, your question led to the exposing of a gaffe in one of the more respectable Middle earth works! Good job! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I'm still curious to see if a later edition has it corrected, if anyone would care to come forward with that info. [ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ] __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...