If Boromir hadn't forced Frodo's hand... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Birdland · 08-03-2002, 09:37 PM

Normally I'm not overly fond of the "what if..." threads, but I couldn't resist this one.

What if Frodo and Sam were aware of what happened at Amon Hen, and knew that Merry and Pippin had been captured by the Orc band? Would they have chosen to go on anyway, or would they have turned aside with the others to try and rescue their friends?

Legolas · 08-03-2002, 10:20 PM

The story wouldn't have changed, in my opinion.

Frodo still knew the importance of his task and if he did not succeed, it would make no difference as to what happened to Merry and Pippin. Additionally, Frodo and Sam would've slowed Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli down.

Kuruharan · 08-04-2002, 06:44 AM

I think that it might have caused some potentially disasterous hesitation on Frodo's part. It would have made what was already a tough emotional wrench even tougher. The less that Frodo knew about the situation that was swirling about him the better.

Child of the 7th Age · 08-04-2002, 08:31 AM

I agree with Kuruharan. I think Frodo would have hesitated, at least at this relatively early stage of the quest. His love for his friends and his responsibility for the Ring would have been at opposite ends of the spectrum. Remember that one of the reasons he left the rest of the fellowship was that he felt a sense of responsibility for what would happen to them. He didn't want to lead them into any more danger. Having his two friends carried off by Orcs might even make him feel that he had personally failed them. That would have been hard to deal with in his head.

One also gets the sense, as Frodo pludged onward with his quest, that, step-by-step, he begins to get more and more of a sense of both the danger and seriousness of the situation. At this stage, I think he was definitely beginning to understand his task, but not with the same clarity as he would later on the actual soil of Mordor. At this point in the story, he still had some growing to do.

(This, by the way, is one of my problems with the movie Frodo. He has little room to grow in terms of his awareness. His fear is at a fever pitch almost from the moment he leaves the Shire.)

So, yes, he might have turned aside, if even for a short time, and this would not have been good. And his sense of responsibility and remorse about Merry and Pippin's capture would have added to the weight of the Ring, and made him less likely to resist its power. I think the latter point is crucial, since Frodo the Ringbearer did not harbor the same sense of hope which, for example, Sam, admittedly carrying the Ring for only a short time, did.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

Legolas · 08-04-2002, 10:56 AM

Aside from his more relaxed or optimistic (perhaps) disposition, Sam's hope was definitely aided by the circumstances under which he obtained the ring. He knew by having the ring, even though Frodo wasn't free at the moment, he was helping his friend and doing exactly what he came on the mission to do in the beginning. He saw the weight that the ring put on Frodo. In carrying it, he was doing a great deed for Frodo and all of the good in Middle-earth. His contribution to the journey was greatly increased now that he was doing more than just tagging along for companionship.

Eruwen · 08-04-2002, 12:22 PM

Interesting thought.

Well, Frodo was very fond of his friends. I think maybe he would have thought really hard about going back to help them, but I don't think he would have actually gone. I think it would have just been a little harder to go on knowing that Pippin and Merry were in trouble. But Sam would have helped him on a lot too. So the story wouldn't change much except for maybe throwing in a thought or two from Frodo about them.

RiderOfRohan · 08-05-2002, 12:55 PM

he wodof kept on going cuz of how important his task is.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 08-05-2002, 03:40 PM

I think Boromir's trying to steal the ring caused Frodo to make up his mind to go on. He also wouldn't have gone to Amon Hen and avoid getting captured by the orcs.

08-03-2002, 09:37 PM	#1
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	If Boromir hadn't forced Frodo's hand... Normally I'm not overly fond of the "what if..." threads, but I couldn't resist this one. What if Frodo and Sam were aware of what happened at Amon Hen, and knew that Merry and Pippin had been captured by the Orc band? Would they have chosen to go on anyway, or would they have turned aside with the others to try and rescue their friends?

08-03-2002, 10:20 PM	#2
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	The story wouldn't have changed, in my opinion. Frodo still knew the importance of his task and if he did not succeed, it would make no difference as to what happened to Merry and Pippin. Additionally, Frodo and Sam would've slowed Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli down. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

08-04-2002, 06:44 AM	#3
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	I think that it might have caused some potentially disasterous hesitation on Frodo's part. It would have made what was already a tough emotional wrench even tougher. The less that Frodo knew about the situation that was swirling about him the better. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

08-04-2002, 08:31 AM	#4
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	I agree with Kuruharan. I think Frodo would have hesitated, at least at this relatively early stage of the quest. His love for his friends and his responsibility for the Ring would have been at opposite ends of the spectrum. Remember that one of the reasons he left the rest of the fellowship was that he felt a sense of responsibility for what would happen to them. He didn't want to lead them into any more danger. Having his two friends carried off by Orcs might even make him feel that he had personally failed them. That would have been hard to deal with in his head. One also gets the sense, as Frodo pludged onward with his quest, that, step-by-step, he begins to get more and more of a sense of both the danger and seriousness of the situation. At this stage, I think he was definitely beginning to understand his task, but not with the same clarity as he would later on the actual soil of Mordor. At this point in the story, he still had some growing to do. (This, by the way, is one of my problems with the movie Frodo. He has little room to grow in terms of his awareness. His fear is at a fever pitch almost from the moment he leaves the Shire.) So, yes, he might have turned aside, if even for a short time, and this would not have been good. And his sense of responsibility and remorse about Merry and Pippin's capture would have added to the weight of the Ring, and made him less likely to resist its power. I think the latter point is crucial, since Frodo the Ringbearer did not harbor the same sense of hope which, for example, Sam, admittedly carrying the Ring for only a short time, did. sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

08-04-2002, 10:56 AM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Aside from his more relaxed or optimistic (perhaps) disposition, Sam's hope was definitely aided by the circumstances under which he obtained the ring. He knew by having the ring, even though Frodo wasn't free at the moment, he was helping his friend and doing exactly what he came on the mission to do in the beginning. He saw the weight that the ring put on Frodo. In carrying it, he was doing a great deed for Frodo and all of the good in Middle-earth. His contribution to the journey was greatly increased now that he was doing more than just tagging along for companionship. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

08-04-2002, 12:22 PM	#6
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 892	Interesting thought. Well, Frodo was very fond of his friends. I think maybe he would have thought really hard about going back to help them, but I don't think he would have actually gone. I think it would have just been a little harder to go on knowing that Pippin and Merry were in trouble. But Sam would have helped him on a lot too. So the story wouldn't change much except for maybe throwing in a thought or two from Frodo about them.

08-05-2002, 12:55 PM	#7
RiderOfRohan Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rohan Posts: 40	he wodof kept on going cuz of how important his task is. __________________ I am never late, nor am I early. I arrive exactly when I want to! I feel so uninspired. Mind Altering drugs, that's what Ineed!

08-05-2002, 03:40 PM	#8
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I think Boromir's trying to steal the ring caused Frodo to make up his mind to go on. He also wouldn't have gone to Amon Hen and avoid getting captured by the orcs. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!