What if it was different - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

akhtene · 05-16-2002, 06:30 PM

Have you read anything on the alternative history of Middle Earth? \I don't mean parodies or imitations\ What do you think of books -if you've read anything, or such idea in general?

Gwaihir the Windlord · 05-17-2002, 12:56 AM

Hmmm...

I've certainly never heard of any such material (a friend of mine has a book called 'Bored of the Rings' -- a humourous interpretation -- but that wouldn't really classify). Alternative histories... Tolkien certainly never wrote any; he was too devoted to his work and didn't seem to have much time for alternatives. Any 'alternatives' would have to have been written by imitation authors, my friend, and as such are probably not worth reading. If they exist, which I doubt.
Who needs alternatives anyway? Have you read the Silmarillion, akhtene? Or Unfinished Tales? they give you real thing.

***The Barrow-Wight*** · 05-17-2002, 08:02 AM

Perhaps akhtene refers to the HoME and its multiple versions of different tales and histories.

akhtene · 05-19-2002, 05:14 PM

Thanks for your advice on what to read. Of course I read Silmarilion, but as for Unfinished Tales I heard of them but couldn't get. And what does HoME stand for?

As for the sort of books I meant asking my question, Perhaps I wasn't correct to call them 'alternative history' In my country we have a three-volume novel published which describes the events 3 centuries after the War of the Ring.

And yet another book which narrates the Silmarilion from the opposite point of view.

I don't claim that those boks are as great as Progessor's creation, but they have also acquired many lovers and fans. And they really give some fresh ideas.

So what I was interested to know if there are any books of this kind in English.

piosenniel · 05-20-2002, 01:30 AM

akhtene

How does the book about the Silmarillion narrate it from the opposite point of view? Is it from Morgoth's point of view? That would be very interesting.

By the way - Welcome to the Downs! Have fun!

Child of the 7th Age · 05-23-2002, 08:51 AM

I remember seeing on e-bay some books written or inspired by role players where they took characters from LotR and then wrote a story about them. That's kind of like the fan fiction people do, only this was actually in published form.

I wonder, how could anyone officially publish an "alternative" story about Middle-earth using the same basic world and ideas, especially the Silm from a different viewpoint? Isn't this protected under copyright law? Wouldn't the Tolkien estate sue them? Isn't this why people post fan fiction on boards but could not publish it in a book or magazine? I don't know too much about this and I may be totally mistaken in my supposition.

Maybe someone else could help who knows more about these things.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

akhtene · 05-23-2002, 06:40 PM

I don't know much about copyright either, but there do exist various sequels,like Dragonlance or Conan,created by the followers of their original authors. To my mind that simply helped developing and enriching those worlds.

Besides, is it so that the good ate alwaysright and the "bad guys" don't have anything interesting to tell, to say nothing of justifying themselves? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Kalessin · 05-23-2002, 07:08 PM

The idea of some new author coming out with parallel histories or continuations of Tolkiens work makes me very uneasy. The nature of Tolkien's monumental solo effort at creation of myth - his lifetime's work - is very different from Howard's primarily episodic (and NOT epic) Conan scenario, or the original Star Trek etc.

Can you imagine it : Rivendell Revisited by P L Agiarist, published by Bandwagon Books Inc. The blurb - "... arriving at the Grey Havens, Frodo finds a scene of devastation. "Time to get busy" he said to himself. We bring one of the Greatest Stories Ever Told back to life with a whole new chapter, featuring your favourite heroes and villains along with some all-new characters - Eminemo, the hard-talking, hard-fightin' Dwarf, and Clinto, the smooth-talking wizard with his hypnotic wand of power ( [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) - can you trust him?"

Or even worse - I can see it now - the dreaded crossovers ... "aieeeee!" cried Xena, Warrior Princess, as she dodged the fireball from the self-styled Son of Sauron! "Elrond! Get back!" shouted Hercules, his voice trembling ... "that Orc wants to own your ring" ( [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )"

Oh well ... anything's possible these days. The brand recognition is high, and nothing is sacred, so watch this space.

Peace [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]

Nar · 05-30-2002, 09:27 AM

Kalessin-- You left out Finblair the Elf Lord: smooth, handsome, scarily cheerful-- singlehandedly redefining the concept of elven ears!

Birdland · 05-30-2002, 11:07 AM

I myself would love to read those books, Akhtene. (By the way - Welcome to the Downs!) I see in your profile you listed your location as "Rus", so I assume that it was a Russian author that wrote this alternative history of the Silm and the three-volume book of life in the Fourth Age. I suppose that because of copyright laws, these books would never be translated and published in England or America.

In America Nicholas Meyer wrote "A 7 Percent Solution" which was a continuation of the story of Sherlock Holmes, dealing with his cocaine abuse. And Gregory MaGuire wrote "Wicked", an alternative history of the Oz stories, told from the point of view of the Wicked Witch of the West.

Both are wonderful books, and are very popular with fans and non-fans of the original works. But nobody on this side of the ocean has tried it with Tolkien, (aside from Fan Fictions), and I doubt that it would ever happen.

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

05-16-2002, 06:30 PM	#1
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	What if it was different Have you read anything on the alternative history of Middle Earth? \I don't mean parodies or imitations\ What do you think of books -if you've read anything, or such idea in general? __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

05-17-2002, 08:02 AM	#3
*The Barrow-Wight* Night In Wight Satin Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 4,043	Perhaps akhtene refers to the HoME and its multiple versions of different tales and histories. __________________ The Barrow-Wight

05-19-2002, 05:14 PM	#4
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	Thanks for your advice on what to read. Of course I read Silmarilion, but as for Unfinished Tales I heard of them but couldn't get. And what does HoME stand for? As for the sort of books I meant asking my question, Perhaps I wasn't correct to call them 'alternative history' In my country we have a three-volume novel published which describes the events 3 centuries after the War of the Ring. And yet another book which narrates the Silmarilion from the opposite point of view. I don't claim that those boks are as great as Progessor's creation, but they have also acquired many lovers and fans. And they really give some fresh ideas. So what I was interested to know if there are any books of this kind in English. __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

05-20-2002, 01:30 AM	#5
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	akhtene How does the book about the Silmarillion narrate it from the opposite point of view? Is it from Morgoth's point of view? That would be very interesting. By the way - Welcome to the Downs! Have fun! __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

05-23-2002, 08:51 AM	#6
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	I remember seeing on e-bay some books written or inspired by role players where they took characters from LotR and then wrote a story about them. That's kind of like the fan fiction people do, only this was actually in published form. I wonder, how could anyone officially publish an "alternative" story about Middle-earth using the same basic world and ideas, especially the Silm from a different viewpoint? Isn't this protected under copyright law? Wouldn't the Tolkien estate sue them? Isn't this why people post fan fiction on boards but could not publish it in a book or magazine? I don't know too much about this and I may be totally mistaken in my supposition. Maybe someone else could help who knows more about these things. sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

05-17-2002, 12:56 AM	#2
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Hmmm... I've certainly never heard of any such material (a friend of mine has a book called 'Bored of the Rings' -- a humourous interpretation -- but that wouldn't really classify). Alternative histories... Tolkien certainly never wrote any; he was too devoted to his work and didn't seem to have much time for alternatives. Any 'alternatives' would have to have been written by imitation authors, my friend, and as such are probably not worth reading. If they exist, which I doubt. Who needs alternatives anyway? Have you read the Silmarillion, akhtene? Or Unfinished Tales? they give you real thing.

05-23-2002, 06:40 PM	#7
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	I don't know much about copyright either, but there do exist various sequels,like Dragonlance or Conan,created by the followers of their original authors. To my mind that simply helped developing and enriching those worlds. Besides, is it so that the good ate alwaysright and the "bad guys" don't have anything interesting to tell, to say nothing of justifying themselves? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

05-23-2002, 07:08 PM	#8
Kalessin Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Earthsea, or London Posts: 175	The idea of some new author coming out with parallel histories or continuations of Tolkiens work makes me very uneasy. The nature of Tolkien's monumental solo effort at creation of myth - his lifetime's work - is very different from Howard's primarily episodic (and NOT epic) Conan scenario, or the original Star Trek etc. Can you imagine it : Rivendell Revisited by P L Agiarist, published by Bandwagon Books Inc. The blurb - "... arriving at the Grey Havens, Frodo finds a scene of devastation. "Time to get busy" he said to himself. We bring one of the Greatest Stories Ever Told back to life with a whole new chapter, featuring your favourite heroes and villains along with some all-new characters - Eminemo, the hard-talking, hard-fightin' Dwarf, and Clinto, the smooth-talking wizard with his hypnotic wand of power ( [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) - can you trust him?" Or even worse - I can see it now - the dreaded crossovers ... "aieeeee!" cried Xena, Warrior Princess, as she dodged the fireball from the self-styled Son of Sauron! "Elrond! Get back!" shouted Hercules, his voice trembling ... "that Orc wants to own your ring" ( [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )" Oh well ... anything's possible these days. The brand recognition is high, and nothing is sacred, so watch this space. Peace [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]

05-30-2002, 09:27 AM	#9
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	Kalessin-- You left out Finblair the Elf Lord: smooth, handsome, scarily cheerful-- singlehandedly redefining the concept of elven ears!

05-30-2002, 11:07 AM	#10
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	I myself would love to read those books, Akhtene. (By the way - Welcome to the Downs!) I see in your profile you listed your location as "Rus", so I assume that it was a Russian author that wrote this alternative history of the Silm and the three-volume book of life in the Fourth Age. I suppose that because of copyright laws, these books would never be translated and published in England or America. In America Nicholas Meyer wrote "A 7 Percent Solution" which was a continuation of the story of Sherlock Holmes, dealing with his cocaine abuse. And Gregory MaGuire wrote "Wicked", an alternative history of the Oz stories, told from the point of view of the Wicked Witch of the West. Both are wonderful books, and are very popular with fans and non-fans of the original works. But nobody on this side of the ocean has tried it with Tolkien, (aside from Fan Fictions), and I doubt that it would ever happen. [ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]