Of Eru, Orcs and Evil - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Dondagnirion · 01-09-2003, 05:38 PM

but once you create an independant being, and "turn it loose", the Creator is no longer responsible for the actions of that being..

I would agree with that statement completely. Eru had, by no means, meant for the evil of the orcs to be unleashed upon middle-earth. They came about as an abuse of the freewill that Eru gave to Melkor and were not directly Eru's creation. They were infact, elves, as far apart as they are they are still the kin of the elves in a way. It says in the Silmarillion that Melkor took elves right when they were born into middle-earth before any of the Vala had contact with them (because the Vala were not granted the knowledge of where the first born would come into the world, and therefore could not find them before Melkor), and corrupted them. This means that they are therefore, elves (albeit corrupted ones, still elves in a way, just as chimps are like humans in a way). Elves had the secret fire, therefore since they are in a way still elves, Orcs also have the secret fire, its only logical. Just my thoughts.

Dondagnirion
"...and Faënor rose and cursed Melkor, naming him Morgoth, the black foe of the world..."

01-09-2003, 05:38 PM	#19
Dondagnirion Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Glittering Caves Posts: 241	but once you create an independant being, and "turn it loose", the Creator is no longer responsible for the actions of that being.. I would agree with that statement completely. Eru had, by no means, meant for the evil of the orcs to be unleashed upon middle-earth. They came about as an abuse of the freewill that Eru gave to Melkor and were not directly Eru's creation. They were infact, elves, as far apart as they are they are still the kin of the elves in a way. It says in the Silmarillion that Melkor took elves right when they were born into middle-earth before any of the Vala had contact with them (because the Vala were not granted the knowledge of where the first born would come into the world, and therefore could not find them before Melkor), and corrupted them. This means that they are therefore, elves (albeit corrupted ones, still elves in a way, just as chimps are like humans in a way). Elves had the secret fire, therefore since they are in a way still elves, Orcs also have the secret fire, its only logical. Just my thoughts. Dondagnirion "...and Faënor rose and cursed Melkor, naming him Morgoth, the black foe of the world..." __________________ "It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing." - Frodo "Will shall be the sterner, heart the bolder, spirit the greater, as our strength lessens." "The only reason for time is so that everything doesnt happen all at once." - Albert Einstein