THE RING and corruption

[Dain]

I'm not sure where this discussion is going, but I wanted to address a few points...

True, but it was just coincidence. Sam and Gollum are the type of people who just don't get along. For no apparant reason they just hate each other.

I'm not sure "no apparent reason" is right. Gollum is a nasty, murderous, sneaking, corrupted being who wants to kill his master and take the ring and end their quest. Sam has never met such deplorable creatures, and is filled with disgust and dislike. He doesn't see what Frodo sees because he doesn't have the ringbearer's perspective or Frodo's wisdom. But really, Samis right to be suspicious, even though it is obvious that his insults have a negative effect on poor Smeagol, particularly in one instance of very bad timing that Smeagol doesn't forget. Shame...BUT:

The main thing is, instead of a minor bad thing happening (Sam insulting Gollum), a major bad thing happens (Sam prevents Gollum's repentence). So Gollum would be a changed ring addict if Sam had been a good little hobbit. Well, that's a little crude, but you see what I mean, right?

Ah, but in the end a major major good thing happens, the distruction of the ring. I don't think Gollum could ever completely be saved, though he may have regained some of his lost "humanity/hobbitity". The ring is just too evil: it IS evil (noun, not adjective). You just can't carry evil around in your pocketses for years and not become corrupt. His sins can be forgiven, if you want, but he can't be saved (no, I didn't mean that to be Christian, just the language works...always appropriating everything...).

As for the ring, I always saw it having somewhat of a will of it's own, probably because lots of Sauron is wrapped up in it, and so it can actively play tricks and lose itself or be found or call evil things to it, but it can't really make it's owner do anything specific, only corrupt him. As for it's effect on those who haven't touched it (which is where the thread started [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ), I think even for those who don't know what it is, it radiates evil and provokes desire for it. Those who have vices or vulnerabilities are obviously easier to corrupt, as well as those of less will-power. The heros in the fellowship are all remarkably strong people, especially the Hobbits. Boromir is the one with the chink in the armor that is his love and pride and desire to save his country, and his dispair and lack of hope and fear--all negative emotions which the ring can easily work with.

Last thought: perhaps the ring did have a little effect on the party of dwarves? I mean, it seems to be the greed for gold that almost starts a battle between men, elves and dwarves, but who knows? But really, the ring wasn't fully developed in the Hobbit, so it shouldn't be looked for for too many examples, I think...

Sorry, lot to catch up on!
In your last post, MLD-G-K-W, I think that good points are made. Smeagol got the ring by murder, and Bilbo by chance--Gandalf makes this point, and it's a good'un. It's not clear why Smeagol would be so suddenly captured by the ring that he would immediately kill for it, though. If a Stoor is a proto-Hobbit, Smeagol must have been a pretty weak and flawed one--but it was all downhill afterwards because of the way it started.

[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Dain ]