Magic vs. Power

[Iarwain]

Glad to have both of your comments, Saucepan and Narthar. It is definately time to provide a definition for each term.

I consider Magic to be the use of spells, incantations, or other occultic means for to make something happen, physical or not.

Power is, as you say, a very broad term, as it covers every form of control over both man and nature. The reason I have chosen to use the word Power is that though there is a difference between Tolkien's brand of magic and the magic used by a more classical magician, there is no word to specifically describe that difference, that my reason for starting this thread; to discern from Tolkien and the occult. Therefore, when the term "power" is used in this thread, I presume that the person is describing Tolkien's brand of magic, not the book definition of power (which has many meanings indeed).

Now that that explaination has been given, the debate begins, that is the debate over whether power is a divine gift, a learned skill, or a practice dealing with props.

If you read my previous posts, I have already explained my view on the "magical items", such as the Rings, the Mirror, and swords such as Orcrist and Glamdring. If you read those posts, my method for explaination is easily applicable to the Elven Rope and Palantiri. Why they seem to work differently for different people is very understandable. Allow me to use the following illustration:

Each being is woven into the very fibre of Middle-Earth, and has connections to threads around it that others might lack. This is the sort of power that I speak of. To use the same illustration, we might say that a world with traditional magic in it is like a patchwork quilt with several invisible squares, holding the world together, but in a way that is impossible to really understand.

Now, you may or may not agree with that illustration, but in either case, it is the base of my argument, so bear with me. I believe that in Middle-Earth, spells are useless. All nonphysical activity involves one's innate "power". Therefore, when you speak of the Morgul King being a sorcerer, I believe that his nonphysical activities were not invoked by his own being but by some twisted maiar that Sauron sent to twist his ways and make him bent. The staves of the Istari were nothing but symbolic of their status. Gandalf lived though his staff was broken in moria, and defeated the Balrog without it. Saruman did not loose any of his potency because of the breaking of his staff, but because of the squandering of his spirit. This is the same thing that weakened Morgoth and Sauron over the years. They invested their spiritual potency in the torment of others, they squandered it in their attempts at global rule, and in the end, all three of them fell. Oh, how I wish you could just jump inside my head, so I wouldn't have to explain this all! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Beorn could have been a Maia, which his existence most closely resembles, or he could be merely another unexplained existence, like Tom Bombadil.

I'm sure that the preceding paragraphs are a jumbled mess, but they'll just have to do for now, because my brain is overflowing with ideas and information that I cannot right now put down without much confusion and difficulty. Basically, I hold the the theory that the Magic in middle earth is one hundred percent innate ability that is merely distributed among objects.


Iarwain

P.S. Bill, it may just be due to the circumstances listed above, but you've completely lost me in your last post. Did I really say those things?

P.P.S. Did the spring at Lourdes deny you, Bill? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ March 15, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]