What happened to Galadriel? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Daegwenn · 02-11-2002, 03:55 PM

I have been reading in different places about what happens to Galadriel. I have heard very odd tales. The ones that strike me the most is:

a- She was forgiven and sailed into the west.
b- She died defending Lothlorien.

AND what happens to Elrohir and Elladan? Do they stay in Imladris for a while before going to their father in the west?

*scratches head* I hate reading all these diferent rumours because it makes me confused and then I give up on trying to actually understand what happens to the characters.

Sincerely,
Daegwenn

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-11-2002, 04:22 PM

She sailed into the West with the Last Ship.

Elrian · 02-11-2002, 06:28 PM

She is A: forgiven and sails into the West. Which is in the Return of the King.
Where did you hear the false one about her dying?

Elladan and Elrohir, stay in ME, whether they are allowed to remain for a time or become as men, I do not remember being clearly stated.

Daegwenn · 02-11-2002, 08:06 PM

This is really sad, the question about Elrohir and Elladan was bothering me so much i went out to chapters to research the Tolkien encyclopedia they have there...but I have it down as such:

The did wander in ME for a bit, they stayed at Rivendell for some time because they wanted to put off deciding if they wanted immortality or the fate of man, eventually they find themselves with their father and their choice is evident.

As for Galadriel, I misread 'the passing of Galadriel...' *slaps self on head* thanks for the help. ^.^

Androndo the Thoughtfull · 02-12-2002, 09:43 AM

A...!

It says nowhere what happened to the twin sons of Elrond... (that i know of, of course, I'm not Eru)

Legolas · 02-12-2002, 06:56 PM

We're told Elrond's sons stayed in Rivendell for sometime with their grandfather, Celeborn, and though we're not told, it seems almost inevitable (and implied) that they crossed the sea with Celeborn into the west. There'd be no real point in them staying in Middle-earth [that we can see].

Birdland · 02-12-2002, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elrian:
<STRONG>She is A: forgiven and sails into the West. Which is in the Return of the King.
</STRONG>

What was she "forgiven" for?

(Gee, I hope it wasn't because of that hissy-fit she threw in front of the Mirror.)

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-12-2002, 11:45 PM

She was one of the Noldor that left Valinor against the command of the Valar. She was the only female to stand with Feanor and his sons.

Ilúvatar · 02-26-2002, 05:39 PM

Hmm, the answer of what happened to Elrohir and Elladan should be quite simple actually:

1) They die.
2) They sail into the West.

Let me explain alternative 2 a little farther: Since it sais in the Silmarillion that the Three Ringkeepers are the last of Noldor to set sail from Middle Earth to the West (that will be Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf OR Círdan, I'm not sure who is accounted as the Ringkeeper of Narya, even though Gandalf carries it, it sais that the last of Noldor sails out from Middle Earth, anyway): These are the last elves of the Noldor to leave Middle Earth, and since Elrohir and Elladan are of the Noldor they either have died before or have left before.

Elven-Maiden · 02-26-2002, 07:17 PM

I was wondering how Galadriel betrayed the Valar in the Silmarillion, but was considered wise, and went to "heaven" in LotR. Thanks! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Marsyas · 12-27-2002, 01:47 PM

Thanks for clarifying this!!!!

*~Marsyas~*

Willow · 12-27-2002, 02:11 PM

I'm sure that somewhere in one of the books it says that Cirdan dwelt in the Havens until the last ship had sailed, and that he was possibly still there. Where does it say that the Keepers of the Ring were the last Noldor to leave ME? Although that could work if Elladan and Elrohir die, because Celeborn was a Moriquendi.

**lindil** · 12-27-2002, 02:22 PM

I think Willow is corrct in that Cirdan waited for the last ship to sail and the ringbearer's ship was not the last, even though it had been 'long in the making'.

Novlamothien · 01-14-2003, 06:28 AM

The Ringbearers ship cannot be the last of the ships, because there was at least one more. The one Legolas and Gimli sailed on after Aragorn died. Oh- and Gandalf had the Ring of Fire when he sailed with the others.

Namarie

Jurion · 01-14-2003, 07:03 AM

In LotR it is not stated that the Ringbearers were the last of the Noldor, so the sons of Elrond could have gone to the West at a later time, and they were Moriquendi anyway, as was Elrond.

Aratlithiel · 01-14-2003, 07:37 AM

Legolas and Gimli sailed West in a boat that Legolas had built after Aragorn died. I'd have to do alot more research to find out for sure, but I believe that this was the last ship to sail West and that Cirdan had already left by that time.

According to "The Tolkien Companion" by J. E. A. Tyler, Elladin and Elrohir, "...like their sister Arwen - although for different reasons - both brothers elected to become of mortal-kind." (Poor Elrond & Celebrian!) I'm not sure which piece of Tolkien's this comes from, but this Companion otherwise seems well researched and reliable.

01-19-2003, 01:38 PM

There are other ships too, remember that Sam had to take a ship too.. after his wife died.
1482 'Last of the Ring-Bearers..'

1541 Legolas and Gimli sailed to the Grey Havens.

02-08-2003, 04:53 PM

Why are Elladan and Elrohir numbered among the Noldor? Only their grandmother, Idril, was of that kindred (yes, Tuor was eventually numbered among them, as well, but only long after Earendil was born) - the rest were either men, Sindar, or Maia. The Noldorin element is only a small fraction.

I have yet to see any explicit reference in Tolkien's work or notes as to the fate of the brothers. My theory (admittedly baseless) is that they only stuck around until Arwen died, and then returned to Valinor. Nothing supports this, but then there was no reason for them to hang out in Middle Earth any longer, either. If they had become mortal, would they have then been numbered as great lords or kings of Gondor? That does not seem the case, since Aragorn and Arwen produced heirs.

Or perhaps one returned to Valinor and one became mortal, as was the case with Elrond and Elros.

One tangental question: what was the fate of Aragorn's and Arwen's children? Since they were the offspring of man and elf, were they given the same choice as Elrond and Elros? If so, did any of them go to Valinor?

It is all very confusing!

Lalaith · 02-08-2003, 05:24 PM

You know, I wondered about that too. But then, Elros' children weren't given a choice either - his choice was also valid for his descendants.

02-09-2003, 12:35 AM

Ah, but Elros did not marry an elf, either.

Elros chose to be mortal - married a mortal. Hence, children were mortal. Aragorn marries an immortal (just like Beren=Luthien and Tuor=Idril) and children ought to get a choice, theoretically.

I would guess that a choice would be given to Aragorn's offspring, as was done to the other half elven, since they were truly half elven (actually, slightly more than half, I should think...)

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-09-2003, 12:04 PM

No-Aragron's offspring would be classified as mortal, in the same way that Beren's were. (Dior, Elladan and Elrohir were all mortal.) I think that the Valar decreed that any being with mortal blood would and should be considred mortal, with the exeception of Earendil, Elwing and descendants. (Tuor was also said to become immortal.)

02-09-2003, 01:29 PM

"No-Aragron's offspring would be classified as mortal, in the same way that Beren's
were. (Dior, Elladan and Elrohir were all mortal.) I think that the Valar decreed that
any being with mortal blood would and should be considred mortal, with the
exeception of Earendil, Elwing and descendants."

You are sort of correct.

Return of the King, App A., explicitly states that Elladan and Elrohir where born in Y. 139 of the Third Age - I find the concept of "mortals" with approximately 3000 year life spans to be a mite difficult to reconcile! No, Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen were most definately given the same choice as Elros and Elrond.

But you are right in one sense: Elladan and Elrohir did *become* mortal, along with their sister, Arwen. I found that that is explicitly stated in App A of Return of the King (p. 389, I think) as the children of Elrond's choice was tied to when their father left Middle Earth - by staying rather than departing with Elrond, they effectively chose mortality.

Regarding Dior, you are probably also right - it is not really stated one way or the other, though it should also be pointed out that Dior died young at the hands of the sons of Feanor, and thus may simply have not lived long enough to be granted any choice in the matter.

Of course, Aragorn's children were definately mortal, though they may well have been very long lived.

Tar Elenion · 02-09-2003, 01:58 PM

According to the Judgement of Manwe anyone with any mortal blood is mortal unless granted other doom. By the Judgement the amount of blood is unimportant. What is important is if Manwe sees fit to grant other doom.
Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen were all granted other doom, and this doom was different than that of Elrond and Elros (who had to choose their fates immediately). They were allowed to live with the 'youth of the Eldar' until the time came for them to make their respective choices. The essential difference between Elves and Men is not how long one or the other may live, but rather what happens after death. Although not specifically stated in LotR, it is implied by the Appendices that Elladan and Elrohir chose mortality. However in Letter 153 JRRT writes: "Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while", which has some accord with the Prologue: "There, though Elrond had departed, his sons long remained, together with some of the High-elven folk."
"Remained for a while" and "long remained" implies that they eventually departed.
JRRT seems to have left it up to the reader to decide whether 'departed' means 'died' or 'sailed West'.

[ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ]

**lindil** · 02-09-2003, 02:15 PM

Also, Elrohir and Elladan, were not Noldor anymore than Sindar or Teleri.

They cam from extremely mixed parnetages that included 2 mortal men and a Maia amongst, the aforementioned Elvish clans.

I would imagine part of their reason for staying was Arwen [ and they may have been extremely close to aragorn as well as they werre his 'brothers', via adoption as well as brothers in law.

One can imagine that they waited till Arwen and Aragorn's repose before sailing west.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-10-2003, 03:05 AM

Fuinrako-I said Earendil, Elwing and DESCENDANTS. (not of Elros's line, of course.)

Legolas · 02-10-2003, 01:51 PM

The *only* people to get the choice of the half-elven were Earendil, Elwing, Elrond, Elros, Arwen, Elladan, and Elrohir.

Elrond, Arwen, Elladan, and Elrohir were not elves.

Elrond married Celebrian - a full elf. Because of this renewed Elvish strain, their children could choose.

Elros, a mortal, married a mortal. Thus, all their children are mortal, end of story.

Likewise, Arwen, a mortal, married a mortal. Just like Elros' children, hers too were mortal. End of story.

If Elladan and Elrohir were to marry elves, their offspring would get the choice, presumably.

Still confused? Read this article.

02-11-2003, 02:06 PM

"Fuinrako-I said Earendil, Elwing and DESCENDANTS. (not of Elros's line, of course.)"

Yes, but you also explicitly stated that Elrohir and Elladan were mortal, thus contradicting yourself and confusing me...

I think, though, that the subsequent replies have cleared this matter up quite thoroughly. Many thanks to all who contributed!

Bekah · 02-11-2003, 11:00 PM

Goodness me, Daegwen. How on earth did you post so many posts in such a short time!!!!

I think that, if you want to find out what happens to a particular character, reading all of the LOTR, and the Appendixes, won't go amiss. You might try the Silmarillion to find out who on earth some of the previous people mentioned in LOTR are...

Regards,

~ Elentari II

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-12-2003, 07:45 AM

The Elladan and Elrohir was a mistake. I meant Elured and Elurin, the twin sons of Dior.

02-11-2002, 03:55 PM	#1
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	What happened to Galadriel? I have been reading in different places about what happens to Galadriel. I have heard very odd tales. The ones that strike me the most is: a- She was forgiven and sailed into the west. b- She died defending Lothlorien. AND what happens to Elrohir and Elladan? Do they stay in Imladris for a while before going to their father in the west? scratches head I hate reading all these diferent rumours because it makes me confused and then I give up on trying to actually understand what happens to the characters. Sincerely, Daegwenn __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

02-11-2002, 04:22 PM	#2
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	She sailed into the West with the Last Ship. __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

02-11-2002, 06:28 PM	#3
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	She is A: forgiven and sails into the West. Which is in the Return of the King. Where did you hear the false one about her dying? Elladan and Elrohir, stay in ME, whether they are allowed to remain for a time or become as men, I do not remember being clearly stated. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

02-11-2002, 08:06 PM	#4
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	This is really sad, the question about Elrohir and Elladan was bothering me so much i went out to chapters to research the Tolkien encyclopedia they have there...but I have it down as such: The did wander in ME for a bit, they stayed at Rivendell for some time because they wanted to put off deciding if they wanted immortality or the fate of man, eventually they find themselves with their father and their choice is evident. As for Galadriel, I misread 'the passing of Galadriel...' slaps self on head thanks for the help. ^.^ __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

02-12-2002, 09:43 AM	#5
Androndo the Thoughtfull Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Daugaardstrand, Denmark Posts: 118	A...! It says nowhere what happened to the twin sons of Elrond... (that i know of, of course, I'm not Eru) __________________ ...and with a tremendous slice of luck you may come out one day...

02-12-2002, 06:56 PM	#6
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	We're told Elrond's sons stayed in Rivendell for sometime with their grandfather, Celeborn, and though we're not told, it seems almost inevitable (and implied) that they crossed the sea with Celeborn into the west. There'd be no real point in them staying in Middle-earth [that we can see]. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-12-2002, 11:45 PM	#8
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	She was one of the Noldor that left Valinor against the command of the Valar. She was the only female to stand with Feanor and his sons. __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

02-26-2002, 05:39 PM	#9
Ilúvatar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 12	Hmm, the answer of what happened to Elrohir and Elladan should be quite simple actually: 1) They die. 2) They sail into the West. Let me explain alternative 2 a little farther: Since it sais in the Silmarillion that the Three Ringkeepers are the last of Noldor to set sail from Middle Earth to the West (that will be Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf OR Círdan, I'm not sure who is accounted as the Ringkeeper of Narya, even though Gandalf carries it, it sais that the last of Noldor sails out from Middle Earth, anyway): These are the last elves of the Noldor to leave Middle Earth, and since Elrohir and Elladan are of the Noldor they either have died before or have left before. __________________ Just a thought: Why do people in movies etc. often run straight ahead when they're chased by a car for example. I know this has nothing to do with Tolkien, but it's an interesting thought.

02-26-2002, 07:17 PM	#10
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	I was wondering how Galadriel betrayed the Valar in the Silmarillion, but was considered wise, and went to "heaven" in LotR. Thanks! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

12-27-2002, 01:47 PM	#11
Marsyas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Rohandemar Posts: 38	Thanks for clarifying this!!!! ~Marsyas~ __________________ ~Marsyas~ ~Niere~ Some find strength in numbers, I find strength in solitude.

12-27-2002, 02:11 PM	#12
Willow Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 16	I'm sure that somewhere in one of the books it says that Cirdan dwelt in the Havens until the last ship had sailed, and that he was possibly still there. Where does it say that the Keepers of the Ring were the last Noldor to leave ME? Although that could work if Elladan and Elrohir die, because Celeborn was a Moriquendi. __________________ Peruser of old threads.

12-27-2002, 02:22 PM	#13
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	I think Willow is corrct in that Cirdan waited for the last ship to sail and the ringbearer's ship was not the last, even though it had been 'long in the making'. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

01-14-2003, 06:28 AM	#14
Novlamothien Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: A white, wintry wonderland-in the South!! Posts: 75	The Ringbearers ship cannot be the last of the ships, because there was at least one more. The one Legolas and Gimli sailed on after Aragorn died. Oh- and Gandalf had the Ring of Fire when he sailed with the others. Namarie __________________ "He said if I had the cheek to make verses about Earendil in the house of Elrond that was my affair." ~Bilbo~

01-14-2003, 07:03 AM	#15
Jurion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 85	In LotR it is not stated that the Ringbearers were the last of the Noldor, so the sons of Elrond could have gone to the West at a later time, and they were Moriquendi anyway, as was Elrond.

01-14-2003, 07:37 AM	#16
Aratlithiel Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 196	Legolas and Gimli sailed West in a boat that Legolas had built after Aragorn died. I'd have to do alot more research to find out for sure, but I believe that this was the last ship to sail West and that Cirdan had already left by that time. According to "The Tolkien Companion" by J. E. A. Tyler, Elladin and Elrohir, "...like their sister Arwen - although for different reasons - both brothers elected to become of mortal-kind." (Poor Elrond & Celebrian!) I'm not sure which piece of Tolkien's this comes from, but this Companion otherwise seems well researched and reliable. __________________ - I must find the Mountain of Fire and cast the thing into the gulf of Doom. Gandalf said so. I do not think I shall ever get there. - Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. - Where are we going?...And why am I in this handbasket?

01-19-2003, 01:38 PM	#17
deedlit Guest Posts: n/a	There are other ships too, remember that Sam had to take a ship too.. after his wife died. 1482 'Last of the Ring-Bearers..' 1541 Legolas and Gimli sailed to the Grey Havens.

02-08-2003, 04:53 PM	#18
Fuinrauko Guest Posts: n/a	Why are Elladan and Elrohir numbered among the Noldor? Only their grandmother, Idril, was of that kindred (yes, Tuor was eventually numbered among them, as well, but only long after Earendil was born) - the rest were either men, Sindar, or Maia. The Noldorin element is only a small fraction. I have yet to see any explicit reference in Tolkien's work or notes as to the fate of the brothers. My theory (admittedly baseless) is that they only stuck around until Arwen died, and then returned to Valinor. Nothing supports this, but then there was no reason for them to hang out in Middle Earth any longer, either. If they had become mortal, would they have then been numbered as great lords or kings of Gondor? That does not seem the case, since Aragorn and Arwen produced heirs. Or perhaps one returned to Valinor and one became mortal, as was the case with Elrond and Elros. One tangental question: what was the fate of Aragorn's and Arwen's children? Since they were the offspring of man and elf, were they given the same choice as Elrond and Elros? If so, did any of them go to Valinor? It is all very confusing!

02-08-2003, 05:24 PM	#19
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	You know, I wondered about that too. But then, Elros' children weren't given a choice either - his choice was also valid for his descendants. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

02-09-2003, 12:35 AM	#20
Fuinrauko Guest Posts: n/a	Ah, but Elros did not marry an elf, either. Elros chose to be mortal - married a mortal. Hence, children were mortal. Aragorn marries an immortal (just like Beren=Luthien and Tuor=Idril) and children ought to get a choice, theoretically. I would guess that a choice would be given to Aragorn's offspring, as was done to the other half elven, since they were truly half elven (actually, slightly more than half, I should think...)

02-09-2003, 12:04 PM	#21
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	No-Aragron's offspring would be classified as mortal, in the same way that Beren's were. (Dior, Elladan and Elrohir were all mortal.) I think that the Valar decreed that any being with mortal blood would and should be considred mortal, with the exeception of Earendil, Elwing and descendants. (Tuor was also said to become immortal.) __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-09-2003, 01:29 PM	#22
Fuinrauko Guest Posts: n/a	"No-Aragron's offspring would be classified as mortal, in the same way that Beren's were. (Dior, Elladan and Elrohir were all mortal.) I think that the Valar decreed that any being with mortal blood would and should be considred mortal, with the exeception of Earendil, Elwing and descendants." You are sort of correct. Return of the King, App A., explicitly states that Elladan and Elrohir where born in Y. 139 of the Third Age - I find the concept of "mortals" with approximately 3000 year life spans to be a mite difficult to reconcile! No, Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen were most definately given the same choice as Elros and Elrond. But you are right in one sense: Elladan and Elrohir did become mortal, along with their sister, Arwen. I found that that is explicitly stated in App A of Return of the King (p. 389, I think) as the children of Elrond's choice was tied to when their father left Middle Earth - by staying rather than departing with Elrond, they effectively chose mortality. Regarding Dior, you are probably also right - it is not really stated one way or the other, though it should also be pointed out that Dior died young at the hands of the sons of Feanor, and thus may simply have not lived long enough to be granted any choice in the matter. Of course, Aragorn's children were definately mortal, though they may well have been very long lived.

02-09-2003, 01:58 PM	#23
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 359	According to the Judgement of Manwe anyone with any mortal blood is mortal unless granted other doom. By the Judgement the amount of blood is unimportant. What is important is if Manwe sees fit to grant other doom. Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen were all granted other doom, and this doom was different than that of Elrond and Elros (who had to choose their fates immediately). They were allowed to live with the 'youth of the Eldar' until the time came for them to make their respective choices. The essential difference between Elves and Men is not how long one or the other may live, but rather what happens after death. Although not specifically stated in LotR, it is implied by the Appendices that Elladan and Elrohir chose mortality. However in Letter 153 JRRT writes: "Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while", which has some accord with the Prologue: "There, though Elrond had departed, his sons long remained, together with some of the High-elven folk." "Remained for a while" and "long remained" implies that they eventually departed. JRRT seems to have left it up to the reader to decide whether 'departed' means 'died' or 'sailed West'. [ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ] __________________ Tar-Elenion

02-09-2003, 02:15 PM	#24
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Also, Elrohir and Elladan, were not Noldor anymore than Sindar or Teleri. They cam from extremely mixed parnetages that included 2 mortal men and a Maia amongst, the aforementioned Elvish clans. I would imagine part of their reason for staying was Arwen [ and they may have been extremely close to aragorn as well as they werre his 'brothers', via adoption as well as brothers in law. One can imagine that they waited till Arwen and Aragorn's repose before sailing west. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

02-10-2003, 03:05 AM	#25
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Fuinrako-I said Earendil, Elwing and DESCENDANTS. (not of Elros's line, of course.) __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-10-2003, 01:51 PM	#26
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	The only people to get the choice of the half-elven were Earendil, Elwing, Elrond, Elros, Arwen, Elladan, and Elrohir. Elrond, Arwen, Elladan, and Elrohir were not elves. Elrond married Celebrian - a full elf. Because of this renewed Elvish strain, their children could choose. Elros, a mortal, married a mortal. Thus, all their children are mortal, end of story. Likewise, Arwen, a mortal, married a mortal. Just like Elros' children, hers too were mortal. End of story. If Elladan and Elrohir were to marry elves, their offspring would get the choice, presumably. Still confused? Read this article. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-11-2003, 02:06 PM	#27
Fuinrauko Guest Posts: n/a	"Fuinrako-I said Earendil, Elwing and DESCENDANTS. (not of Elros's line, of course.)" Yes, but you also explicitly stated that Elrohir and Elladan were mortal, thus contradicting yourself and confusing me... I think, though, that the subsequent replies have cleared this matter up quite thoroughly. Many thanks to all who contributed!

02-11-2003, 11:00 PM	#28
Bekah Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Several miles over the madness horizon and accelerating Posts: 431	Goodness me, Daegwen. How on earth did you post so many posts in such a short time!!!! I think that, if you want to find out what happens to a particular character, reading all of the LOTR, and the Appendixes, won't go amiss. You might try the Silmarillion to find out who on earth some of the previous people mentioned in LOTR are... Regards, ~ Elentari II __________________ Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit ------------~~~~~~~~~~~~~------------ A laita Atar, ar Yondo, ar Ainasule. Ve nes i yessesse na sin, ar yeva tennoio. Nasie.

02-12-2003, 07:45 AM	#29
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	The Elladan and Elrohir was a mistake. I meant Elured and Elurin, the twin sons of Dior. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone