Sea-longing - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Belin · 11-15-2002, 08:21 PM

Quote:

But deep in the hearts of all my kindred lies the sea-longing, which it is perilous to stir. Alas! for the gulls. No peace shall I have again under beech or under elm.

So says Legolas, when he first sees the gulls. What is the nature of sea-longing? Clearly, not all the elves that came in contact with the sea departed immediately for Valinor. In the First Age, in fact, many of them sailed over the sea away from it.

My current shadowy hypothesis is that sea-longing only began to exist after Eönwë summoned all the elves back to Valinor, though I'm not certain whether the Valar would be able to plant something like this into them. Furthermore, this does not explain how Círdan lives at the Grey Havens and looks at the sea every day. Does he simply have more reason to stay than Legolas does?

Or am I completely wrong?

--Belin Ibaimendi

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ]

***Sharkû*** · 11-15-2002, 09:21 PM

On an only slightly related note, Tolkien is quoted twice on the headword sea in the Oxford English Dictionary: "1955 J. R. R. Tolkien Return of King 149 Deep in the hearts of all my kindred lies the *sea-longing." and with "a1973 — Silmarillion (1977) xxiii. 244 The sea-longing woke in his heart."

I think this clearly shows the importance of that feeling within the oeuvre of Tolkien.

HerenIstarion · 11-16-2002, 02:47 AM

having not so much to add as a comment, I would be glad to give some beautiful quotes:

Quote:

S77

But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water

Quote:

S77

Long they remained by the coasts of the western sea, and Ossë and Uinen came to them and befriended them; and Ossë instructed them, sitting upon a rock near to the margin of the land, and of him they learned all manner of sea-lore and sea-music. Thus it came to be that the Teleri, who were from the beginning lovers of water, and the fairest singers of all the Elves, were after enamoured of the seas, and their songs were filled with the sound of waves upon the shore.

Quote:

S77

There Tuor made a song for Eärendil his son, concerning the coming of Ulmo the Lord of Waters to the shores of Nevrast aforetime; and the sea-longing woke in his heart, and in his son's also

It seems (personal opinion) to me that water is of all created things mostly reminding of the Great Music, for See and Song are always related with Tolkien. In Elves it awakes the longing of the past, nostalgy of things that were before, and in Men the wish to depart whither they do not know. And sea-longing is evoked by the remnants of Ulmo's voice in the waves.

Gwaihir the Windlord · 11-16-2002, 03:15 AM

I believe it is possibly for three reasons.

Firstly, the time had to come in Middle-Earth when all Elves, or very near that, must depart from it. Therefore they do not fully belong there -- the changing, dangerous and dying lands of mortals -- but instead in the Undying Lands, where the eternity and peacefulness suit them well. The sea calls to them. The sea hints at something apart from Middle-Earth; it flows onto all shores, and is what will bring them to Valinor. I.E. the same sea that the Elves can watch, lapping on the shores of ME, also touches Valinor, their heart's longing, so they love it and want to follow it to it's joyous end.

Within that, or seperate from it, there is a different circumstance for the High Elves and the Morquendi. The Noldor have seen Valinor, and their time on earth is but an exile. Thus the sea draws them ultimately back. The Sea elves perhaps love the sea for a different reason, namely the aforementioned encounter with Osse and Ulmo. Hmmm... not too sure about the Sindari, though. Maybe the first reason covers them?

Evisse the Blue · 11-18-2002, 11:23 AM

It's interesting how much this sea longing can apply to us humans too, though [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this feeling is found only in elves, although elves do experience it more acutely, and more painfully. Frodo, for instance, had recurring dreams about the sea, although he had never seen it.

Child of the 7th Age · 11-18-2002, 01:38 PM

Yes, and remember Frodo's statement to Sam. Sam was saying how wonderful Rivendel was, and said that it had everything. But Frodo answered back that it did not have the Sea.

sharon

Anarion · 11-21-2002, 03:40 PM

Although, it is not a 'sea' in the proper sense, Cuivienen means: Water of Awakening. The Elves were born at this site(Lake Cuivienen), and(from personal experience) as one who was born in similar circumstances(by an inlet of the Atlantic Ocean), this can definitely bring a certain longing to bear in one's life... I have spent many months at sea.
Perhaps there is also the mystical idea to be considered that the first voyage of the Elves was not in a ship or other fabricated device, but upon an land which moved across the waters of Arda becoming Tol Eressea... The Lonely Isle.

***Mithadan*** · 11-22-2002, 12:47 AM

To answer an earlier question, Cirdan was fated to remain in Middle Earth until the last of the elves were ready to depart. He undoubtedly felt the sea-longing but was able to resist it.

Anarion, well met and welcome to our forums. Gwaihir, good to see you again. Good topic, Belin.

***Mister Underhill*** · 11-22-2002, 01:41 AM

The sea-longing in my view represents a sort of metaphor for death-longing, a leave-taking of the world and all its cares, rest and peace at last. It’s a popular motif in fantasy stories that immortality eventually becomes a burden and a great weariness, a curse instead of a blessing.

Amarinth · 11-22-2002, 05:04 AM

what a refreshing take on sea-longing, mr. underhill. are you by chance alluding to death-longing resonant with greek and egyptian mythology -- charon and anubis taking the dead by boat to their final destination?

***Sharkû*** · 11-22-2002, 06:00 AM

Sea-longing in Middle-Earth is in practically all instances also a longing for the Blessed Realm. Those Elves who did not follow that at first, or who, like the Noldor, were later affected by the opposite of it, desire for great new lands in Middle-Earth, later had to realize that the longing for Aman seems to be part of their nature.
Hence, the sea-longing of Legolas or Galadriel appears rather to be the exact opposite of desire for mortality.
Immortality may have become a curse, but only so because of the dwindling of the ages of the Elves, and more so because of the Doom of Mandos. The longing for the sea is there the longing for the passage into the West, a restoration of the status quo of former times which was not subject to change or mortality. It is leaving the world, but rest and peace are never desired to be achieved through death by those Elves which long for the Sea.

Rimbaud · 11-22-2002, 08:11 AM

Sharkû and Undé have it, I think. It is less a longing for the sea itself and more a yearning for release, for escape. Harping on the immortality as curse theme, we see that the Elves tire of the perpetual changes to Arda, so evident to an immortal, and thus are more humanised than previously, albeit in a different manner to that which you might have expected.

It may be something of the nature of the tranquility that descends upon the very elderly of our people, when they have made their peace with death, and no longer fear it. It is simply expressed in a different manner.

mark12_30 · 11-22-2002, 08:45 AM

And to Frodo's question "Where then shall I find rest?" from sting, tooth, knife, and long burden; from being stretched too thin; the answer was, The Undying Lands, which Tolkien described as both a purgatory and a reward, and a chance to find healing if it could be found before he died.

***Mister Underhill*** · 11-22-2002, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Hence, the sea-longing of Legolas or Galadriel appears rather to be the exact opposite of desire for mortality.

I didn't mean literal death, especially with the anti-spiritual connotations of "mortality" -- death as an end, nothingness, oblivion; I meant a symbolic death and subsequent eternal life in what amounts to Elvish Heaven (The Blessed Realm, the Undying Lands), where everyone lives happily with the "gods" and you are reunited with friends and family who departed the world ahead of you.

Quote:

are you by chance alluding to death-longing resonant with greek and egyptian mythology -- charon and anubis taking the dead by boat to their final destination?

I think the imagery is certainly resonant. See also Boromir's final journey down Anduin.

'Ask not of me where he doth dwell - so many bones there lie
On the white shores and the dark shores under the stormy sky;
So many have passed down Anduin to find the flowing Sea.
Ask of the North Wind news of them the North Wind sends to me!'
'O Boromir! Beyond the gate the seaward road runs south,
But you came not with the wailing gulls from the grey sea's mouth.'

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: Mister Underhill ]

11-18-2002, 11:23 AM	#5
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	It's interesting how much this sea longing can apply to us humans too, though [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this feeling is found only in elves, although elves do experience it more acutely, and more painfully. Frodo, for instance, had recurring dreams about the sea, although he had never seen it. __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

11-18-2002, 01:38 PM	#6
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Yes, and remember Frodo's statement to Sam. Sam was saying how wonderful Rivendel was, and said that it had everything. But Frodo answered back that it did not have the Sea. sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

11-22-2002, 12:47 AM	#8
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,391	To answer an earlier question, Cirdan was fated to remain in Middle Earth until the last of the elves were ready to depart. He undoubtedly felt the sea-longing but was able to resist it. Anarion, well met and welcome to our forums. Gwaihir, good to see you again. Good topic, Belin. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

11-22-2002, 05:04 AM	#10
Amarinth Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: realm of agonized volcanoes Posts: 113	what a refreshing take on sea-longing, mr. underhill. are you by chance alluding to death-longing resonant with greek and egyptian mythology -- charon and anubis taking the dead by boat to their final destination? __________________ pity this busy monster,manunkind, not / -progress is a comfortable disease;/ your victim (death and life safely beyond) / plays with the bigness of his littleness ---ee cummings

11-22-2002, 08:11 AM	#12
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	Sharkû and Undé have it, I think. It is less a longing for the sea itself and more a yearning for release, for escape. Harping on the immortality as curse theme, we see that the Elves tire of the perpetual changes to Arda, so evident to an immortal, and thus are more humanised than previously, albeit in a different manner to that which you might have expected. It may be something of the nature of the tranquility that descends upon the very elderly of our people, when they have made their peace with death, and no longer fear it. It is simply expressed in a different manner. __________________ And all the rest is literature

11-15-2002, 09:21 PM	#2
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	On an only slightly related note, Tolkien is quoted twice on the headword sea in the Oxford English Dictionary: "1955 J. R. R. Tolkien Return of King 149 Deep in the hearts of all my kindred lies the *sea-longing." and with "a1973 — Silmarillion (1977) xxiii. 244 The sea-longing woke in his heart." I think this clearly shows the importance of that feeling within the oeuvre of Tolkien.

11-16-2002, 03:15 AM	#4
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	I believe it is possibly for three reasons. Firstly, the time had to come in Middle-Earth when all Elves, or very near that, must depart from it. Therefore they do not fully belong there -- the changing, dangerous and dying lands of mortals -- but instead in the Undying Lands, where the eternity and peacefulness suit them well. The sea calls to them. The sea hints at something apart from Middle-Earth; it flows onto all shores, and is what will bring them to Valinor. I.E. the same sea that the Elves can watch, lapping on the shores of ME, also touches Valinor, their heart's longing, so they love it and want to follow it to it's joyous end. Within that, or seperate from it, there is a different circumstance for the High Elves and the Morquendi. The Noldor have seen Valinor, and their time on earth is but an exile. Thus the sea draws them ultimately back. The Sea elves perhaps love the sea for a different reason, namely the aforementioned encounter with Osse and Ulmo. Hmmm... not too sure about the Sindari, though. Maybe the first reason covers them?

11-21-2002, 03:40 PM	#7
Anarion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at sea Posts: 27	Although, it is not a 'sea' in the proper sense, Cuivienen means: Water of Awakening. The Elves were born at this site(Lake Cuivienen), and(from personal experience) as one who was born in similar circumstances(by an inlet of the Atlantic Ocean), this can definitely bring a certain longing to bear in one's life... I have spent many months at sea. Perhaps there is also the mystical idea to be considered that the first voyage of the Elves was not in a ship or other fabricated device, but upon an land which moved across the waters of Arda becoming Tol Eressea... The Lonely Isle.

11-22-2002, 01:41 AM	#9
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	The sea-longing in my view represents a sort of metaphor for death-longing, a leave-taking of the world and all its cares, rest and peace at last. It’s a popular motif in fantasy stories that immortality eventually becomes a burden and a great weariness, a curse instead of a blessing.

11-22-2002, 06:00 AM	#11
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Sea-longing in Middle-Earth is in practically all instances also a longing for the Blessed Realm. Those Elves who did not follow that at first, or who, like the Noldor, were later affected by the opposite of it, desire for great new lands in Middle-Earth, later had to realize that the longing for Aman seems to be part of their nature. Hence, the sea-longing of Legolas or Galadriel appears rather to be the exact opposite of desire for mortality. Immortality may have become a curse, but only so because of the dwindling of the ages of the Elves, and more so because of the Doom of Mandos. The longing for the sea is there the longing for the passage into the West, a restoration of the status quo of former times which was not subject to change or mortality. It is leaving the world, but rest and peace are never desired to be achieved through death by those Elves which long for the Sea.

11-22-2002, 08:45 AM	#13
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	And to Frodo's question "Where then shall I find rest?" from sting, tooth, knife, and long burden; from being stretched too thin; the answer was, The Undying Lands, which Tolkien described as both a purgatory and a reward, and a chance to find healing if it could be found before he died. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.