Are Tolkiens Books Sexist?

[bombur]

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Lush: Uh, please do not use those vile "PC feminist" terms. They are about as trendy Milli Vanilli.
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Uh... sorry, may I rephrase again... As I do not see her as a manipulator, I am forced to see her in a role that some of my friends would consider to be that of a sexobject [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

BTW: What the ****** is milli vanilli ?????????

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Mister underhill: ”If she were “weak-willed”, as you say, she would have insisted on accompanying Aragorn and the Fellowship...”
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...Which logic holds water only, if she is without talent and strenght to be valuable member of the fellowship. In which case she still has no place in my list of strong/mighty/willfull/powerful/personality-infused/etc female charachters of LOTR.

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Mister Underhill: ”I would suggest that it’s not Arwen who is displaying a lack of wisdom here. Intellectually grasping that you will... ”
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I am trying to avoid direct quotations since I’ve got the books in Finnish and have to translate, but in the story of Arwen and Aragorn in the appendixes of the LOTR, when Aragorn is about to die Arwen said something to the effect of: ”Only now I understand the fall of your family. I always despiced them as vile fools, but if this is the gift of the one to men, it is bitter to take.” Thats what I call lack of wisdom. To DESPICE someone for his weakness and then whine when facing the same ordeal. Have done it myself... subsequently surrendering any claim of wisdom.


To Nar I’d say that the LOTR far more emphasises Arwens role in keeping the eleves in middle earth by entirely different talents then those of diplomat. She was dancing around looking pretty and YOUNG (by eleven standards). I think that is what was meant by ”Arwen the beautiful, maiden of Lorien and Imladris, eveningstar of her people.” Also I’d like to say that diplomacy, at least as it was in the feudal era, did not require much talent from those shipped back and forth between castles as tokens of friendship... I of course cannot ”prove” that she was not a talented diplomat. Then again I cannot prove that she was not king of France. LOTR does not to my knowledge give her a strong role. We of cource always may if we wish. Also it might be worthwhile to note that she was not ”queen to be.” We are speaking of eleves. Both Elrond and Galadriel had all intentions of ruling as long as the eleven kingdoms in middle earth lasted. Nars comment on why Arwen could not have been ”a shield maiden” even if she wished is rather perceptive. I think this goes to the many late born children of Lorien and Imladris. Neither is living the age of great warriors. They are last safe havens, not forward military bases.

Yet I once more emphasise that I basically agree with Anarya Silverbranch. While setting the books in very sexist environment Tolkien still makes up many powerful and believable female charachters. I just do not count Arwen as one.


Janne Harju