Sam and Smeagol

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I find it very difficult to see how Gollum would not also have succumbed to the Ring in the same way.

Well, the thing that surprises me is that Tolkiendoes not know what would happen. He says he thinks it would happen a certain way, but until he does write and publish it, it cannot be taken as the truth. So Saucepan Man, it may be hard for you to think of Gollum not giving into the ring, but it doesn't it mean that he would not have. You may be right, that Gollum would have succumbed to its power, but given the possibility that Tolkien presents us with, I think maybe Gollum would have had a great struggle like Tolkien said, but in the end, not being able to satisfy both, or being overwhelmed by the dilemma, he might have tried to escape making the decision by throwing himself in the fire without having the ring. Because the ring would rather try to master Frodo's will since Frodo would be bearing it. Gollum's will would not be tainted by the ring's will as it would be busy with Frodo (who would have succumbed), and so, Gollum would be tormented with a decision to make and might have thrown himself in. Although, that's just a possibility, and I don't like it all that much. I don't think that it would have happened either.

I like Tolkien's possibility better, and it just seems right. I think that Gollum could have actually withheld the power of the ring. The first reason being of his hatred for Sauron, as we all know. Smeagol would have settled the score (he would think so) by throwing Sauron's ring in. The second reason would be his love for Frodo {and in the case the case that Sam let him repent, then they would probably become closer and in that case, his love of Sam too (possibly)}. Smeagol would not have realized that he would die very soon after the ring would be thrown in, but it would not matter anyways since he would have gone in with it. Smeagol, even if he would not be around afterwards to continue the friendship, would still have done it out of love and friendship, as a way of repaying Frodo, and possbily Sam, for their kindness and love that cured Smeagol of over 500 years of lonliness. The last (at least the last I can think of), and probably the most powerful would be his desire to finally win his lifelong battle with the ring. For over 500 years he has been tormented by the ring. He loved it, yes, for he was addicted to it. But he hated it also, and much more I believe. It was because of the ring that he was tricked, forced, or encouraged to kill his best (and probably only) friend Deagol, getting expelled from his home and shunned by his family and nieghbors alike, driven to lonliness, twisted his body and mind, driven to torture, captured and interrogated, driven to hate things he once loved, and living in fear, hate, and remorse and regret. It was his will to escape all that and to overcome it once and for all. He must have been sick of living like that, far beyond his time, and being driven mad by his addiction. And for once in his life he has found something worth giving the ring up for and truly living for. I think he would have realized he no longer needed the ring, and quite possibly that he did not want it, for he had found the better things in life. But that's just my opinion.

I think you are missing my point Finwe, Lord of Angmar, and Cinderella. Tell me, just because you mistrust someone, do you scorn, insult, or bully them? I hope you don't, for you have no right to. Sam was alright to mistrust Gollum, but that is not an excuse for insulting, bullying, or scowling at him.

so he couldn't help mistrusting and hating Gollum

Hate and mistrust are two very different things. Mistrusting someone does not mean you hve to hate that person. It wasn't Sam's mistrust that led him to hate Gollum. Sam just didn't like him. But if Merry and Pippin were present, I don't think that they would have hated him like Sam. They might not have liked him, and probably wouldn't have trusted him, but they would not use that as a reason to hate him, and bully, scorn, and insult him, the way Sam did.

Yes Frodo did know what Gollum went through but had he not have, I don't think he would have bullied him, insulted him, or scorned him.

Sam could not possibly have understood this, having a simple mind that could not grasp such matters, and having had no experience with the Ring himself (as of then).

But does that mean he had to hate GOllum and scorn, insult, and bully him? Sam was wrong to do what he did to Gollum, mistrusting is fine, but it is not right to treat him the way he did.

he reacted logically.

Is insulting Smeagol logical? NO! Mistrust is, but not mean accusations and insults. Sam is a disgusting cruel bully.