Inherent Evil

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

'What the quotes tell us is that there is of course perfection, but it lies solely with the Creator (and one might say therefore in creation as a whole).'

'Because by accepting or tolerating their making – necessary to their actual existence – even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.'

These two quotes, my apologies Sharku as they were lifted from your own post, I have isolated these because they outline something I believe to be very fundamental in the writings of Tolkien. I'll just add another couple to help it (since my much-ravaged copy of sil is missing the sections these are found in, they'll be approximate [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]).

ULMO: ...and thus it may be that evil... was yet better to have been.

He will see that nothing exists or can be created that hath not its uttermost source in me.

I am of the opinion that evil in Ea is a fundamental and inherent part of the world, which comes from the mind of Illuvitar via Melkor, is manifest generally in the world and will not be beaten -- unless it is at the very end, at the 'Last Battle' of the Dagor Dagorath. Evil, rather than being contrary to Eru's will, is a part of it; I believe that since everything stemmed from him, nothing can be said to be against his will. The Ainur, through their Music, wrote it all, and they wrote it all directly from Illuvitar's initiative.

This may not seem entirely in keeping with the topic of this thread, which I realise. It does relate to Orcs in that they, like Melkor, represent the part of the mind of Illuvitar that contains inherent evil. The existence of Orcs is a product of the evilness that is a fundamental part of the world.

When you say that Orcs are not totally evil; does an Orc have any chance of performing an act that is not either a) for the purposes of an evil master or b) for the purposes of their own gain? I don't think so. It may be that an Orc, in a natural, uncorrupted state, may not be the twisted and totally evil creature that we see them as. However, they are this. Under the influence of Morgoth and Sauron they are this way, if they were not in the beginning of their creation. (Remember that even in cases where they aren't serving an evil master, they still act evilly.)

So yes, I would say that Orcs, under the domination of Melkor, are inherently evil. Sorry if the first part of my post was somewhat roundabout, but I thought it was necessary to sort of led up to it [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].