Inherent Evil

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

You still don't have it, Nils. Listen for once and thou shalt understand.

To say that Eru, in the ultimate intellect of his mind, has a part of him that can understand and see the value of evil does not mean that he himself is an 'evil dictator'.

The Lord of Angmar has got what I was saying perfectly (actually I think he may have said it rather better than me). Eru's mind is the source of the Ainur. Each of these Ainur are different. I think it likely that they, all arrayed together, represent the various thoughts and comprehensions that make up Illuvatar's mind. Some, and especially one (Melkor) of these Ainur, see the use and power of evil and use it for their own ends.

As Melkor himself came from Illuvatar directly, it is clear that in the pre-mentioned 'all-encompassing intellect of Illuvatar' the kind of mind that Melkor has got is understood and known there. It does not mean that Illuvatar is like Melkor, because he isn't. He is also like Manwe, Yavanna, Mandos, Ulmo and all the others. As I said, his mind is all-encompassing and understands all of these minds. In the addition of Melkor to this, the capacity to recognise the power and use of evil is clearly also something that Eru posesses.

He sees all ends and purposes under heaven.

Because Illuvatar can comprehend the sort of intelligence that is evil, it does not mean at all that he is 'fallen' and utterly consumed by it himself. He is obviously not evil himself; I cannot believe your thick-skulledness in continuing to think that that is what I mean. I should think it was perfectly clear what I (and the Lord of Angmar) have been saying -- what I don't understand is how you came to reason out the so-called 'logic' you are attempting in your posts.

As for your 'free will' thing, you must realise that I am also not implicating that the creations (i.e. everyone) of Illuvatar do not have it. They do, obviously, as I said about the Orcs; that their apparent sense of intelligence -- and free-will -- makes the theory of their not having any sort of fëa unlikely-seeming. But the sort of mind that makes the free-willing choice to be evil is not the same as the one that makes the choice to be goodly. Each person is different. All I said is that Illuvatar's mind contains the essence of each of these minds, so that he can understand both; it does not mean that his mind is polluted by evil, only that he knows it and sees its purposes. Evil is comprehended by Illuvatar as well as it is by Melkor, but that does not mean that Illuvatar is Melkor (as you seem to think I am implicating). In a sense Eru can be said to see beyond it, which is something Melkor cannot.

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Your sense of logic is lacking in some other things you say, as well. It seems to follow the same lines as the above affair, i.e. jumping to remote conclusions from posts instead of actually really understanding what they are saying. Because I gave a quote from the Silmarillion and related that it was 'relevent' -- which you may deny if you'd like, to my further bewilderment -- it does not in any way imply that I consider Morgoth's Ring to be irrelevant. As you'll notice, I never actually said this or anything that could normally be interpreted as such.

One last request, Nils: before you go on to make another post that violently condemns everything I have said, understand that what you think I am trying to say -- as I obviously should know, as it is me that's trying to say it -- is not what I am actually saying. So please, stop putting words in my mouth and stop telling me what I am saying regardless of my honest protests that you have got me wrong; I already know what I am saying, and it is utterly pointless to tell me that I am saying something else when in fact I'm not.
If you have misunderstood it I have clarified for you. If I disagree with your idea of what I have been talking about in this thread, then that is obviously not what I have been talking about.