Inherent Evil

[Lord of Angmar]

Is light no longer light without darkness? If there is to be a perfect world, is no longer perfect because there is no evil?

I don't believe so.

Once again, misunderstood. Nobody is implying that perfection can only be achieved with evil. That was never said nor implied, so do not accuse anyone in this thread of thinking that.

What Kelendil and Gwaihir said, and what Tolkien himself reinforces through conversation between Ulmo and Mandos, is that Melkor's evil, while still rebellious, depraved and profane, adds depth to the world that Iluvatar created, and makes the beauty of his creation shine through all the more when compared with that evil. It is still evil, but that does not mean that it is entirely negative in the 'long haul'.

Nobody is implying that Iluvatar's initial creation is better for having been marred by Melkor, simply that his world is still beautiful and not by any stretch of imagination fully corrupted because of Melkor. The implication you seem to disagree with, Nils, is the thought that evil makes good seem even better, but this is a fundamental philosophy in Tolkien's works. Would anyone feel or care about the immense happiness of King Elessar when he finally claimed the Throne of Gondor if we did not know aught of the struggle that he had been through to attain it?

I leave you, Nils, with the repeat of a Silmarillion quote that Gwaihir used. It is a far better summary of Tolkien's thought than I could sum up:

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been. (Ulmo)

[ August 04, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

[ August 04, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]