Inherent Evil

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps, then [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. I can see your point, but (as I see it) if 'evil' simply means 'against the purposes of Illuvatar' then, as Orcs were this, they were evil.

On the issue of redemption. It's good to see that we're all agreed that Orcs have fëar, so were they redeemable? JRRT seems to have said so, I believe. Nils is right by the way;

As far as I know, there is no punishment that Eru passes upon those who follow the evil path.

This appears to be true, but as a fëa can never be destroyed Orc's spirits must go somewhere in the end. However, I think it probable -- it is the 'fate of Men' -- that only humans, of all people on earth, go to Illuvatar after death. The Orcs, then, probably stay in Arda somewhere; Mandos is the obvious gathering-place for their spirits.

Either way, if there was no redemption for them they would stay evil forever. Could this be permitted? After the end of the world, would Orcs have changed or would they remain exactly as they were? One does have to feel sorry for them, as it really is not their fault that they are like that. They have been utterly corrupted; I think they are still evil, as the evil thoughts originiate in their minds, but the way their mind works is not their fault (in their case).

Another take on it could be Nils's. If what he has said is correct, and the body is evil on Arda rather than the spirit, then Orcs could possibly, after death, lose their evilness and return to a normal state. It seems unlikely that they should change in this way, but perhaps it is true that they are only bound to evilness while they inhabit their corrupt bodies after all.