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01-22-2003, 03:36 PM | #1 | ||||||||
Animated Skeleton
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The Edain - The Twice Fallen?
I will try to convey logic in my ramblings as best I can, I only hope you understand it!
I do not doubt Tolkien often wrestled with the reasons for introducing a fall of Men into his work. Although not entirely conclusive, Men dramatically fell from grace on two separate occassions; prior to their first encounter with the Eldar and as a direct result of their attempt to assail Valinor. There is a distinct significance in theological (primarilly Catholic) terms regarding the initial downfall and the attempt to seek access to Valinor, which I would suggest is the allegorical 'Eden' of Arda. Of course, Tolkien disliked allegory in all its manifestations, so could the unconscious inclusion of 'downfall' akin to the 'original sin' concept be considered an unsubstantiated truth in his work? If one considers the Downfall of Numenor, should it represent the downfall of the entire race of Men? Alternatively, Numenoreans might have been considered indicative of the forgiven Men, who acknowledged Iluvatar, acknowledged the Valar and were in simple terms the 'righteous' among the Edain. If so, does this mean their elavated status among humankind was granted against the backdrop of a previous downfall that might be considered a response by Iluvatar to Man's original sin. Where then does the evidence for this downfall originate? Tolkien had certainly wrestled with the idea evidenced in 'Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth' whereby the discussions between Finrod Felagund and Andreth The Wise reveals a dark past in the History of Men prior to their arrival in Beleriand. In the The Drowning of Anadûnê Tolkien refers briefly to the 'First Fall of Man' Quote:
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One must consider that which Andreth was truly reluctant to discuss, the Guidance of Eru in their beginning. It seems such that denial of their Creator is their sin and the sole reason for the first Downfall of Man! For the belief was held among Men in the beginning that they also were incarnate, as the Elves. Yet, in their dark past this gift was taken from them and so the punishment appears to them as Death, this was the Marring of Mankind and for that Melkor was responsible. Again it is the relationship with Eru that strikes me as the most significant aspect of their origins; Quote:
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However, it seems that some of these escaped the shadow and came upon the Elves. Strangely enough, both peoples meet in the middle having run from a dark past, both of whom were reluctant to speak of the evils they had particpated in. The Noldor had spilt the blood of their own in Valinor and were doomed by Mandos, Men had worshipped Melkor and forsaken their God! Yet, from within the race of Men there comes the Three House of the Edain; they can be viewed as the 'righteous' in the sense that they attempt to return to their Creator and learn moe of him through the teachings of the Eldar. The Downfall of Numenor presents a continuation of this fall into darkness from which they had originally fled. The detatchment from Eru, the return to the worship of Melkor, the forgotten history for which they had seemingly repented. Letter 212 Quote:
1. The fear of Death itself? 2. The reduction in lifespan? 3. The severance from the Creator? Could it be all 3 or none at all considering these seemed inevitable from the outset? Were Men punished before they were brought into this world and doomed to suffer in order to inherit? The 'Second Fall of Man' does not come as a great surprise then considering their history. The deciept of Sauron and the return to worship of Melkor is less forgiveable in this case as the Numenoreans could be considered better prepared and more learned in their understanding of Eru and their place upon Arda. The span is reduced for the saved by the mingling of blood among the remaining Edain in Middle-Earth, the land was destroyed, Valinor was removed beyond sight and knowledge and only a few of the 'righteous' among the Race of Numenor were saved. Yet, it strikes me that this is not entirely a 'Downfall of Man' in the general term, more akin to the destruction visited upon Sodom by the Lord! What then constitutes the actual downfall in either case? How do we define a punishment for the Race if we consider that increased longevity contributed to their desire for immortality? Quote:
[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ]
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01-22-2003, 05:58 PM | #2 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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An excellent and highly interesting post. There are two threads, this one and this one which you may find very interesting. If you have read them already, I apologise.
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01-22-2003, 06:33 PM | #3 |
Animated Skeleton
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Many thanks for the links Voronwe, I have not read these before, but am glad that the core questions have been pondered by wiser scholars than I!
My desire for questioning the content of 'Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth' stemmed from my first reading of the work, of which I discussed the content with my colleague Maedhros here. As you can see, I clearly find the same amazement many before me have felt when reading this unique work. More recently, while reading Humphrey Carpenter's Tolkien Biography, I was struck by a small line regarding his childhood, 'If the world were unfallen and man were not sinful, he himself would have spent an undisturbed childhood with his mother in a paradise such as Sarehole had in memory become to him.' Something in this invoked a sense of wonder as to the 'Fall' of Man, especially the first fall described in 'Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth' and Tolkiens own conflicting reasons for its inclusion. However, I am glad that my own muddled thoughts are not unique and others mull and labour over the same 'great' mysteries in Tolkiens work.
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10-12-2003, 04:19 PM | #4 |
Animated Skeleton
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I just wondered if anyone else might have thoughts to add?
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10-12-2003, 05:27 PM | #5 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Slightly on a tangent, but do you think Tolkien may have been making a point when the Edain who become the most advanced, succesful etc fall again, whereas those who stay behind in M-earth don't fall into worship of Sauron (though they're by all accounts pretty rough handed (even Helm, centruries later) )
In the first Fall ALL of humnaity Falls - however, in the Akallabeth, some Númenoreans resist Sauron throughout, so I think that it's not so "total" as the Frist was. Obviously, it's effects on the physical world, history of the world, and realtions of men with the West was huge though.
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10-14-2003, 06:46 AM | #6 | |
Deadnight Chanter
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Well, I would like to add a bit. The ideas are extracted from the discussion the whole of which can be found here
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11-26-2003, 04:10 PM | #7 |
Animated Skeleton
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Many thanks for the responses, some interesting points raised which I hope to delve into when I return from my vacation.
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11-27-2003, 10:47 PM | #8 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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One small point for your consideration: Tolkien pointed out in one of his Letters (I can't for the life of me remember which one or the exact quote) that the idea of Death being a "Gift" to Men was an Elvish one. Basically, he said that we see things in the Silmarillion from the perspective of the Elves, who see Death as the "Gift of Men."
So, death is not necessarily "the gift of the One to Men," as Arwen said.
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11-30-2003, 06:31 AM | #9 | ||
Deadnight Chanter
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Can not agree with the last statement. The letter 208 (I reckon) you refer to states:
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Letter 131 addressed To Milton Waldman Quote:
[ 7:34 AM November 30, 2003: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]
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11-30-2003, 08:47 AM | #10 | |
Wight
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In addition to what HerenIstarion has said, with which I totally agree, it is said that considering Death only as a punishment is a direct consequence of the lies of Morgoth:
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Very good topic, and a really interesting post Ancalagon'sFire [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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12-09-2003, 05:48 AM | #11 |
Haunting Spirit
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The second "fall" of the attack on Valinor is a fairly obvious parallel to the Tower of Babel with Ar-Pharazon playing the part of Nimrod.
Almost everything in Sil is supposed to be "the real story" of a modern myth or legend in the way that Numenor is the "real" Atlantis. |
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