Does it bother anyone else... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

LOTR_know-it-all55 · 01-04-2003, 12:30 AM

that when the Three Hunters and Gandalf are about to enter Meduseld they hand over their weapons willingly!!??(save Gandalf) In the book Aragornn tells them that no other man shall handle Anduril. Then Legolas and Gimli hand theirs over only because they will be in such good company with Anduril. I don't know maybe it's only me....

Kalimac · 01-04-2003, 12:57 AM

Well...not too much really, if only because Aragorn isn't carrying Anduril in this version . It's a good scene in the books, but in the movie it would seem a little odd if Aragorn starts getting portentous about a sword that up till now has never had any particular significance. This makes the argument over weapons carrying somewhat pointless and it would also take up time that could be used for other stuff, since the conclusion would be the same anyway, with them all leaving their weapons except for Gandalf. I thought they did a nice shorthand version of it by having Gandalf say that surely they wouldn't deprive an old man of his staff; it got the point across in less time.

Armani_Elf · 01-04-2003, 04:13 AM

a book can never be the same as the film. that's all i can say.peace

eleanor_niphredil · 01-04-2003, 04:14 AM

I think that that was a real missed opertunity. I mean, during the fighting scenes, they seem to have unlimited amounts of daggers, swords, arrows ect. It should have taken them a little longer to give them in.

Purple Elf · 01-04-2003, 09:55 AM

I was a bit dissapointed at this aswell, I mean these are their war weapons! they have saved their lives and slewn many of their enemys weapons in days of old were to men like cars or Games consols etc are to the men of today, they are attached to them and should of, like it was in the book made a little more fuss when giving them over. But i do still realise that the movie was an adaptation and they cant do every detail so, c'est la vie.

LOTR_know-it-all55 · 01-04-2003, 11:42 AM

Aragorn is Isildur's heir!! He is the ONE that can weild the blade that cut the Ring from Sauron's hand! It should be a sacred blade![ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: LOTR_know-it-all55 ]

anduin angel 44 · 01-04-2003, 11:42 AM

yes it bothered me soooooooo much!!!

LOTR_know-it-all55 · 01-04-2003, 11:43 AM

Wield** sorry

Haldir · 01-04-2003, 11:56 AM

that did NOT bother me, but it DID bother me that the castle in Meduseld has just one room, they give their weapons outside, right after the door they're in the King's room, that's kind of funny..

the mortal elf · 01-04-2003, 01:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn is the heir of Isildur's heir!! He is the ONE that can weild the blade that cut the Ring from Sauron's hand! It should be a sacred blade! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, except for one teensy problem: The blade he handed over wasn't Narsil/Anduril. It was just some replacement sword. If he had made that much fuss about this little thing, wouldn't it bring down Anduril's significance? And on a happier note, Gimli doesn't look pleased at handing over his many axes, he just doesn't protest. Try to be positive, people.

LOTR_know-it-all55 · 01-04-2003, 11:42 PM

fine mortal elf but i still don't like it

Pookabunny · 01-05-2003, 12:35 AM

*ducking from thrown objects*Wow people, chill, it's cool. Difference of opinion is always appreciated, for it makes interesting conversations. Don't take disagreements as personal insults. That's the beauty of this lovely forum.I agree, I was a little disappointed with the handing over the weapons stuff and what it lead to - the Exorcist revisited scene. However, that was all remedied to me when Gandalf winked. DUDE!WINKED!**off-topic note** Oh hey also, we can go back and edit our messages. Feel free to take advantage of this nifty tool - it saves from having to post a new message.

01-05-2003, 12:44 AM

I was a little disappointed but, like someone else said, (I'm too lazy to check!) the main point was maid when they hesitated for a moment, Gimli didn't look happy, and Gandalf didn't give up his staff. The movie was still really awesome!

LOTR_know-it-all55 · 01-05-2003, 11:36 AM

TTT-"Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay a hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.' The guard stepped back and looked with amazement on Aragorn. 'It seems that you are come on the wings of song out of the forgotten days,'he said. 'It shall be,lord, as you command.' 'Well,' said Gimli, 'if it has Anduril to keep it company, my axe may stay here,too, without shame'; and he laid it on the floor. 'Now then, if all is as you wish, let us go and speak with your master.'"Sorry bout that, I meant no offense and I certainly do not think that the quality and greatness of the movie or anything involving LOTR was lessened by this.

Durelin · 01-05-2003, 12:23 PM

Hello! They didn't have time, there was so many more important elements to the story that they couldn't dwell on a trivial scene like that. Atleast they fit Gandalf's reluctantness in.

Cherie Centaur · 01-05-2003, 12:25 PM

Oh guys come on. It's just a few missing lines. I'd rather see more time spent on Faramir and Treebeard than to see those lines. By the way, we've sort of already established that the sword is Elendil's. In Ammon Huin(?,I'm not good at geograghy), Aragorn calls out Elendil at least once so we fans know. Granted it is an undertone of the soundtrack but it is there. Though seeing Aragorn's griping at Edoras(again geography) would be nice, it's not necessary to the plot. Think of what would be next too cut if they put it in .

LOTR_know-it-all55 · 01-06-2003, 02:39 PM

They didn't have to dwell on it or put in all of those lines.(that was just to prove a point) In my OPINION it would have made a nice addition to that particular scene.

01-06-2003, 03:48 PM

Perhaps it will be on the extended edition. We don't know they didn't say it, only that they didn't show it.

01-07-2003, 02:38 AM

maybe I am simplifying it but to me, "handling" means to fight with not to take and put to the side while they go in to have Gandalf reverse the spell. Handling means "to use"... in my opinion. At least thats the way I choose to explain it.

doug*platypus · 01-15-2003, 07:10 AM

It does indeed bother me, knowitall. Tolkien insisted that his greatest heroes have magical weapons. Even Farmer Giles of Ham had a magic sword. In the movies it seems more necessary to have a cool looking weapon than one of great lineage and history. As for Gimli's small airyfairy axe (I think it might be one of his throwing ones), I think he should have just left it there full stop.Ian McKellen's wink was excellent, though. Touch of class. The next five minutes or so I'd rather forget, though.

Donlammenion · 01-15-2003, 07:28 AM

I have to say that such a small piece of tolkens magic missing from a great adaptation of his books is not going to or shouldn't ruin any ones oppinions of the film as if you didnt notice there was a pause in which all of the company have a discontented look in their face and when aragornn passes his sword he pauses befor letting go all be it momentarily but it was i think enough to show his feelings about this treatment the group was given. Just a thought!

Orual · 01-15-2003, 09:23 PM

Cherie, if I'm not mistaken, "Elendil" was his war cry--much like Merry and Pippin crying "The Shire!" Their swords didn't come from the Shire, but it's what they were fighting for and therefore what they said before plunging into battle. I can't recall hearing Aragorn say "Elendil"--though you're probably right, because PJ does like to toss us bones like that--but it probably didn't mean that his sword was Elendil's.Though I'm certainly not arguing your main point, that it's not a huge deal. Personally, I was more aggravated by the lack of the Grishnakh scene--I dearly wanted to hear Pippin imitate Gollum. (Of course, I'd have settled for Pippin doing pretty much anything--he was really shortchanged in the movie, hardly any screentime, and I missed him...) Not everything can be kept. I would've settled for Faramir being in the movie, and maybe even Treebeard. Where were they? ~*~Orual~*~

doug*platypus · 01-16-2003, 03:10 AM

Interesting point about the battle-cries, Orual. So maybe the filmmakers were trying not to glorify weapons so much? While the main swords are all beautiful pieces of work, the only one that really gets alluded to heavily is Sting, and that is more for its fine craftsmanship than its power. This is a nice change, I suppose, from all of the modern day movies such as Blade or Men in Black that make people think, "Man, I want one of those!"

Liriodendron · 01-16-2003, 07:00 AM

This didn't bother me at all, because it wasn't Anduril......I was bothered both times by the unattractivness of Theoden's sword. A great moment, he slowly grasps the sword, which is held up for considerable screen time, for all to see......Yet, for some reason, I thought the sword looked rather "clunky" compared with many of the gorgeous props I've seen in these films. Was that a heart at the base of the blade? (no "horse" motifs?) Ach! I know, Theoden's sword (does it have a name in the book? I can't remember) was not "made by the elves", that's why it doesn't seem quite as beautiful. [ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

Greyhame · 01-16-2003, 08:03 PM

I like swords. I want swords.Mmmmm... swords.The LOTR movies have done nothing to diminish my sword-fetish. In fact, they've probably made it worse.Ah, Glamdring, you will soon be mine...Oh yeah, and Gandalf's wink was priceless.

doug*platypus · 01-17-2003, 06:16 AM

I think the <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> heart at the base of the blade <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> was actually two horseheads facing each other. I still can't believe how incredible Sting looked!! Although since it was done so appallingly (inconsistently, ugly and not done for Glamdring), I think they should have left the glowing action out altogether.I'm pretty sure Théoden's sword was named in the book, but that's a good five metres away in another room. Oh, no, this thread's been hijacked by the sword freaks! Sorry, knowitall!

akhtene · 01-23-2003, 06:33 PM

Compared to the fighting scene that follows, in the King's hall, in the presense of the King, with King's guards, with their bare hands - their 'willingness' to give up their weapons isn't so shocking at all.

01-04-2003, 12:30 AM	#1
LOTR_know-it-all55 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Meduseld Posts: 46	Does it bother anyone else... that when the Three Hunters and Gandalf are about to enter Meduseld they hand over their weapons willingly!!??(save Gandalf) In the book Aragornn tells them that no other man shall handle Anduril. Then Legolas and Gimli hand theirs over only because they will be in such good company with Anduril. I don't know maybe it's only me.... __________________ Legolas Greenleaf, long under tree in joy thou hast lived.Beware of the Sea! If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

01-04-2003, 12:57 AM	#2
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Well...not too much really, if only because Aragorn isn't carrying Anduril in this version . It's a good scene in the books, but in the movie it would seem a little odd if Aragorn starts getting portentous about a sword that up till now has never had any particular significance. This makes the argument over weapons carrying somewhat pointless and it would also take up time that could be used for other stuff, since the conclusion would be the same anyway, with them all leaving their weapons except for Gandalf. I thought they did a nice shorthand version of it by having Gandalf say that surely they wouldn't deprive an old man of his staff; it got the point across in less time. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

01-04-2003, 04:13 AM	#3
Armani_Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: a mere Ghostly Wanderer Posts: 29	a book can never be the same as the film. that's all i can say.<P>peace __________________ An elf in an Armani suit

01-04-2003, 04:14 AM	#4
eleanor_niphredil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: england Posts: 805	I think that that was a real missed opertunity. I mean, during the fighting scenes, they seem to have unlimited amounts of daggers, swords, arrows ect. It should have taken them a little longer to give them in. __________________ Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to spend my time on this forum. And by the way, for any of you turning into a penguin, stop it. ~* I am Pippin took in the Female Fellowship*~

01-04-2003, 09:55 AM	#5
Purple Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: A tree somewhere anywhere! Posts: 34	I was a bit dissapointed at this aswell, I mean these are their war weapons! they have saved their lives and slewn many of their enemys weapons in days of old were to men like cars or Games consols etc are to the men of today, they are attached to them and should of, like it was in the book made a little more fuss when giving them over. But i do still realise that the movie was an adaptation and they cant do every detail so, c'est la vie. __________________ "Because i belived you to be indeed Luthien Tinuvel, of whom i was singing. but if you are not she, then you walk in her likeness." - Aragorn

01-04-2003, 11:42 AM	#6
LOTR_know-it-all55 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Meduseld Posts: 46	Aragorn is Isildur's heir!! He is the ONE that can weild the blade that cut the Ring from Sauron's hand! It should be a sacred blade!<p>[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: LOTR_know-it-all55 ] __________________ Legolas Greenleaf, long under tree in joy thou hast lived.Beware of the Sea! If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

01-04-2003, 11:42 AM	#7
anduin angel 44 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: somewhere outside of the lord of the rings world Posts: 17	yes it bothered me soooooooo much!!! __________________ i looked at you 1000 times but this time when i looked at you there was something new how could i be so blind

01-04-2003, 11:43 AM	#8
LOTR_know-it-all55 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Meduseld Posts: 46	Wield** sorry __________________ Legolas Greenleaf, long under tree in joy thou hast lived.Beware of the Sea! If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

01-04-2003, 11:56 AM	#9
Haldir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	that did NOT bother me, but it DID bother me<BR>that the castle in Meduseld has just one room,<BR>they give their weapons outside, right after<BR>the door they're in the King's room, that's<BR>kind of funny.. __________________ "In place of a Lord you shall have a Queen, not Dark but Beautiful and Terrible as the Dawn, Treacherous as the Sea, Stronger than the foundations of the Earth all shall love me and dispair"

01-04-2003, 01:37 PM	#10
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn is the heir of Isildur's heir!! He is the ONE that can weild the blade that cut the Ring from Sauron's hand! It should be a sacred blade! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, except for one teensy problem: The blade he handed over wasn't Narsil/Anduril. It was just some replacement sword. If he had made that much fuss about this little thing, wouldn't it bring down Anduril's significance? And on a happier note, Gimli doesn't look pleased at handing over his many axes, he just doesn't protest. Try to be positive, people. __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

01-04-2003, 11:42 PM	#11
LOTR_know-it-all55 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Meduseld Posts: 46	fine mortal elf but i still don't like it __________________ Legolas Greenleaf, long under tree in joy thou hast lived.Beware of the Sea! If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

01-05-2003, 12:35 AM	#12
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	ducking from thrown objects<P>Wow people, chill, it's cool. Difference of opinion is always appreciated, for it makes interesting conversations. Don't take disagreements as personal insults. That's the beauty of this lovely forum.<P>I agree, I was a little disappointed with the handing over the weapons stuff and what it lead to - the Exorcist revisited scene. However, that was all remedied to me when Gandalf <I>winked</I>. DUDE!<B>WINKED</B>!<P>off-topic note<BR>Oh hey also, we can go back and edit our messages. Feel free to take advantage of this nifty tool - it saves from having to post a new message. __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

01-05-2003, 12:44 AM	#13
Hobbiton_Girl Guest Posts: n/a	I was a little disappointed but, like someone else said, (I'm too lazy to check!) the main point was maid when they hesitated for a moment, Gimli didn't look happy, and Gandalf didn't give up his staff. The movie was still really awesome!

01-05-2003, 11:36 AM	#14
LOTR_know-it-all55 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Meduseld Posts: 46	TTT-"Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay a hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'<BR>The guard stepped back and looked with amazement on Aragorn. 'It seems that you are come on the wings of song out of the forgotten days,'he said. 'It shall be,lord, as you command.'<BR>'Well,' said Gimli, 'if it has Anduril to keep it company, my axe may stay here,too, without shame'; and he laid it on the floor. 'Now then, if all is as you wish, let us go and speak with your master.'"<P>Sorry bout that, I meant no offense and I certainly do not think that the quality and greatness of the movie or anything involving LOTR was lessened by this. __________________ Legolas Greenleaf, long under tree in joy thou hast lived.Beware of the Sea! If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

01-05-2003, 12:23 PM	#15
Durelin Estelo dagnir, Melo ring Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,063	Hello! They didn't have time, there was so many more important elements to the story that they couldn't dwell on a trivial scene like that. Atleast they fit Gandalf's reluctantness in.

01-05-2003, 12:25 PM	#16
Cherie Centaur Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cottage Cheese near the Gap Posts: 95	Oh guys come on. It's just a few missing lines. I'd rather see more time spent on Faramir and Treebeard than to see those lines. By the way, we've sort of already established that the sword is Elendil's. In Ammon Huin(?,I'm not good at geograghy), Aragorn calls out Elendil at least once so we fans know. Granted it is an undertone of the soundtrack but it is there. Though seeing Aragorn's griping at Edoras(again geography) would be nice, it's not necessary to the plot. Think of what would be next too cut if they put it in . __________________ Why do we let the monkey slide for popping the weasel? Just because he thought it was fun? Guys, we're dealing with a psycho.

01-06-2003, 02:39 PM	#17
LOTR_know-it-all55 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Meduseld Posts: 46	They didn't have to dwell on it or put in all of those lines.(that was just to prove a point) In my OPINION it would have made a nice addition to that particular scene. __________________ Legolas Greenleaf, long under tree in joy thou hast lived.Beware of the Sea! If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

01-06-2003, 03:48 PM	#18
nevfeniel Guest Posts: n/a	Perhaps it will be on the extended edition. We don't <I>know</I> they didn't say it, only that they didn't <I>show</I> it.

01-07-2003, 02:38 AM	#19
hollyann Guest Posts: n/a	maybe I am simplifying it but to me, "handling" means to fight with not to take and put to the side while they go in to have Gandalf reverse the spell. Handling means "to use"... in my opinion. At least thats the way I choose to explain it.

01-15-2003, 07:10 AM	#20
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	It does indeed bother me, knowitall. Tolkien insisted that his greatest heroes have magical weapons. Even Farmer Giles of Ham had a magic sword. In the movies it seems more necessary to have a cool looking weapon than one of great lineage and history. As for Gimli's small airyfairy axe (I think it might be one of his throwing ones), I think he should have just left it there full stop.<P>Ian McKellen's wink was excellent, though. Touch of class. The next five minutes or so I'd rather forget, though. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-15-2003, 07:28 AM	#21
Donlammenion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: mirkwood Posts: 47	I have to say that such a small piece of tolkens magic missing from a great adaptation of his books is not going to or shouldn't ruin any ones oppinions of the film as if you didnt notice there was a pause in which all of the company have a discontented look in their face and when aragornn passes his sword he pauses befor letting go all be it momentarily but it was i think enough to show his feelings about this treatment the group was given. Just a thought!

01-15-2003, 09:23 PM	#22
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 868	Cherie, if I'm not mistaken, "Elendil" was his war cry--much like Merry and Pippin crying "The Shire!" Their swords didn't come from the Shire, but it's what they were fighting for and therefore what they said before plunging into battle. I can't recall hearing Aragorn say "Elendil"--though you're probably right, because PJ does like to toss us bones like that--but it probably didn't mean that his sword was Elendil's.<P>Though I'm certainly not arguing your main point, that it's not a huge deal. Personally, I was more aggravated by the lack of the Grishnakh scene--I dearly wanted to hear Pippin imitate Gollum. (Of course, I'd have settled for Pippin doing pretty much anything--he was really shortchanged in the movie, hardly any screentime, and I missed him...) Not everything can be kept. I would've settled for Faramir being in the movie, and maybe even Treebeard. Where were they? <P>~~Orual~~ __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

01-16-2003, 03:10 AM	#23
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Interesting point about the battle-cries, Orual. So maybe the filmmakers were trying not to glorify weapons so much? While the main swords are all beautiful pieces of work, the only one that really gets alluded to heavily is Sting, and that is more for its fine craftsmanship than its power. This is a nice change, I suppose, from all of the modern day movies such as Blade or Men in Black that make people think, "Man, I want one of those!" __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-16-2003, 07:00 AM	#24
Liriodendron Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 527	This didn't bother me at all, because it wasn't Anduril......I was bothered both times by the unattractivness of Theoden's sword. A great moment, he slowly grasps the sword, which is held up for considerable screen time, for all to see......Yet, for some reason, I thought the sword looked rather "clunky" compared with many of the gorgeous props I've seen in these films. Was that a heart at the base of the blade? (no "horse" motifs?) Ach! I know, Theoden's sword (does it have a name in the book? I can't remember) was not "made by the elves", that's why it doesn't seem quite as beautiful. <p>[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ] __________________ http://www.lizmargason.com

01-16-2003, 08:03 PM	#25
Greyhame Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 42	I like swords. I want swords.<P>Mmmmm... swords.<P>The LOTR movies have done nothing to diminish my sword-fetish. In fact, they've probably made it worse.<P>Ah, Glamdring, you will soon be mine...<P>Oh yeah, and Gandalf's wink was priceless. __________________ Poo-tee-weet?

01-17-2003, 06:16 AM	#26
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I think the <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> heart at the base of the blade <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>was actually two horseheads facing each other. I still can't <B>believe</B> how incredible Sting looked!! Although since it was done so appallingly (inconsistently, ugly and not done for Glamdring), I think they should have left the glowing action out altogether.<P>I'm pretty sure Théoden's sword was named in the book, but that's a good five metres away in another room. Oh, no, this thread's been hijacked by the sword freaks! Sorry, knowitall! __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-23-2003, 06:33 PM	#27
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	Compared to the fighting scene that follows, in the King's hall, in the presense of the King, with King's guards, with their bare hands - their 'willingness' to give up their weapons isn't so shocking at all. __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...