Did anyone else notice that in FOTR........ - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

elf_Legolas · 01-28-2003, 05:52 PM

The whole scene where Haldir greets the fellowship in the woods, where he says, "The dwarf breathes so loud we could've shot him in the dark'".............in the regular version, Aragorn goes on to say that they came for protection, and Haldir saying they cannot go back.........but in the extended version the scene stops after Haldir's line and goes directly to the scene where Aragorn is trying to persuade Haldir to let them go further............Anyone else catch this? Why did they change it like that?

cannedpoatoe · 01-28-2003, 06:28 PM

Yeah, i noticed that too. I think it would still fit in fine with the story but it might have confused some people later on with the scene of Aragorn and Haldir arguing (in elvish) whether or not to let them in because it would kind of make Haldir seem really mean.

HCIsland · 01-28-2003, 06:47 PM

They had to cut at least some of it because right after he says, "you cannot go back" he says, "come, she is waiting". Well obviously in the extended version they don't immediately head for Caras Galadhon. Also, having the line "you cannot go back" followed with all the negotiating certainly would be confusing because what would they be negotiating? Whether Haldir and company should kill them or not? Aragorn's pleas certainly didn't have that kind of urgency to them.H.C.

elf_Legolas · 01-29-2003, 05:34 PM

I thought so too, realized it after I posted this thread

Gorwingel · 01-30-2003, 12:17 AM

Didn't notice, but I guess I will have to go back and check (needed a reason to watch my extended edition DVD ) though I didn't remember seeing that part.

Lady Iverin · 02-17-2003, 07:28 PM

Yeah, I noticed that. But I think that because of what comes next in the extended version that they needed to change it. It's still confusing to newcomers though.[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Lady Iverin ]

avarrogion · 02-17-2003, 08:13 PM

Well it feels kinda weird at first...i mean after watching the old version and then the extended version and going back to the old version to look for out for the part...it just feels weird....

engwaalphiel · 02-18-2003, 09:32 AM

Yes , with all the things added back in the extended version you remember what bit comes next from the first version . When it's different it makes you think about it for a moment or two!

Lady Alasse · 02-18-2003, 09:14 PM

Did anyone else find it kind of strange that in the extended edition, when Aragorn is fighting the big orc (Lurtz or something...) that after Aragorn stabs him with the dagger the orc pulls it out, licks it and throws it at him.I've been wondering why he licked it for quite some time now (since last november...)

Rochelle · 02-18-2003, 11:30 PM

I personally think he licked it to spite Aragorn...to show one last stand of strength you know? Maybe to show Aragorn he can kill him but not hurt him...it's a pride thing *lol*The thing that awed me the most about that scene was that Aragorn (Viggo) hit that dagger with his sword on the very first try. That's talent!

Rynoah, the Overly-Happy · 02-18-2003, 11:35 PM

To show how horribly disgusting Lurtz was? To make the audience cringe? To intimidate Aragorn to show he didn't feel the pain/didn't care? To make us Boromir fans want to take that dagger and stuff it up his nose? (Not that we didn't want to already...)Many reasons, I think.

aragornreborn · 02-20-2003, 01:51 PM

I agree with Rynoah, but it's also interesting that PJ denies that it was his idea. He did say he thought it was a nice touch though... Some people are sick.

Nimiriel · 02-21-2003, 10:31 AM

Speaking of things missing in the extended edition: Is it just me or has one of Pip's lines been cut out in Moria? It's when Gandalf can't remember which of the three doors they sould take. While they rest and Gandalf think you hear this:
Pip: Are we lost?
Merry: No, Gandalf's thinking!
Pip: Merry?
Merry: What Pippin?!
Pip: I'm hungry

But from the first version I remeber it like this:
Pip: Are we lost?
Merry: No, Gandalf's thinking!
Pip: I think we are!
brief pause
Pip: Merry?
Merry: What Pippin?!
Pip: I'm hungry

Is it just me, or has a line been cut out??? I'm very confused!

Peri · 02-21-2003, 10:55 AM

Yes, I noticed that as well. If you think about it, it better that they left it out. Gimli says to Aragorn "We should go back." And then Haldir tells them they cannot go back. In the EV, Aragorn has to persuade Haldir to let them enter Lorien. It would have been very contradicting to leave that part in, though I do miss it.

Birdland · 02-21-2003, 11:31 AM

Lady Alasse - The scene with Lurtz and the knife, disturbing as it was, was taken directly from Tolkien. In the chapter "Tower of Cirith Ungol" when the two orcs are fighting, one stabs the other and then licks the blood off the knife.I'm sure P.J. remembered that moment and thought it would be neat to throw in there. Or maybe it was the actor's idea. But either way, the original inspiration for that moment was from Tolkien.

HCIsland · 02-21-2003, 07:29 PM

If we are talking about stuff that was lost from the theatrical film, one line I was sorry to see go was from Gandalf very early on.He says, "The world goes on, much as it has this past age, scarcely aware of the existence of hobbits, ..."And then he adds, "for which I am very thankful."McKellen does such a great job delivering this line and it conveys so much to the movie audience so efficiently. I remember this being one of the beats the first time I saw the film where I said to myself, "I'm really going to like this."I can understand completely why it had to go though as Bilbo says much the same line in the new "Concerning Hobbits" intro.H.C.

doug*platypus · 02-22-2003, 02:56 AM

Yeah, that whole entering Lórien scene was a bit flawed in my opinion. The extended version just confused the picture even more, and maybe they should have quite while they were ahead, and left it as it was in the original.The thing that really gets me is the timeline of it. After the Fellowship leave Moria, Aragorn says that by nightfall the hills would be swarming with Orcs. After a bit of travelling, he sees Lórien at a distance. Then later, they are shown running in, and seem to have covered a good 10 km or so, as well as the descent from the Eastgate in just a few minutes. Then Haldir shows up and refuses to let Aragorn out of his sight (come on, we all know the real reason he followed Viggo to Helm's Deep). They have a little conversation, start travelling on until nightfall, and then start talking again. Why did they not sort it out then and there? If Haldir doesn't want dwarfy boy in the Golden Wood, why bring him on a 6 hour journey deeper in?? I don't get it.

HCIsland · 02-22-2003, 11:30 AM

I'm not sure I'm following the problem here Doug.Aragorn says that by nightfall these hills will be swarming with orcs, but that doesn't imply what time of day it is. Indeed, if it is several hours to the safety of Lothlorien, it still may be fairly early in the day.Just because the journey to Lorien is covered in a couple of shots, doesn't mean it only took ten minutes. If they stuck true to impling the actual timelines, the movie would be little more then endlessly plodding along Fellowship members. Similarly, the fact that they are jogging to the forest is necessary to imply some sense of urgency and threat. They need to keep the movie moving. Does this make 100% logistic sense? Of course not, but it is necessary.Once in the forest, Haldir leads them to the safety of the flets, as he does in the book. They arrived in the forest late in the day and are safely on the flets at nightfall. This makes sense to me.There the true discussion as to whether they'll be allowed into Calas Galadhon begins. It's Aragorn doing most of the discussion (it is Legolas mostly in the book), but I think it is necessary to show that Aragorn is the leader here. The decision is made and by the next evening they are in Calas Galadhon.Again, I don't think I see a problem.H.C.

Annantar · 01-05-2004, 07:53 PM

well I did not catch that, but I will next time I watch it though. But did u notice that everytime Elijah wood walks off the screen, he gets this really clueless look on his face; smiles, and the looks to the side. It looks so funny! Me and My friend were wathcing that movie alot at that time and we caught everything! Theres alot more that I could tell u, but theres just too much!

The Only Real Estel · 01-05-2004, 08:45 PM

Yeah, I did notice that. I was a little suprised that Jackson actually altered the original version, but not disappointed or anything.

Nimiriel · 01-06-2004, 11:11 AM

Reading this thread over again I feel I must add that I enjoyed the new extended Lothlorien scene(s). I think it makes way more sense to people who haven't read the books. That's what I hear from my friends anyway.

The Wraith · 01-06-2004, 03:37 PM

I think orcs(Uruk-hai in Lurtz's case)Like the taste of blood.I like it when Aragorn walks up to Lurtz and simply looks at him and cuts his head off!!! Especially when Lurtz is a brick sh*t house who is 7foot tall.Aragorn acting hard.....again

01-28-2003, 05:52 PM	#1
elf_Legolas Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 15	Did anyone else notice that in FOTR........ The whole scene where Haldir greets the fellowship in the woods, where he says, "The dwarf breathes so loud we could've shot him in the dark'".............in the regular version, Aragorn goes on to say that they came for protection, and Haldir saying they cannot go back.........but in the extended version the scene stops after Haldir's line and goes directly to the scene where Aragorn is trying to persuade Haldir to let them go further............<P>Anyone else catch this? Why did they change it like that? __________________ When you tone big marshmellow!!

01-28-2003, 06:28 PM	#2
cannedpoatoe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: a place in the United States Posts: 54	Yeah, i noticed that too. I think it would still fit in fine with the story but it might have confused some people later on with the scene of Aragorn and Haldir arguing (in elvish) whether or not to let them in because it would kind of make Haldir seem really mean. __________________ "dont tell the elf"-Gimli

01-28-2003, 06:47 PM	#3
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	They had to cut at least some of it because right after he says, "you cannot go back" he says, "come, she is waiting". Well obviously in the extended version they don't immediately head for Caras Galadhon. Also, having the line "you cannot go back" followed with all the negotiating certainly would be confusing because what would they be negotiating? Whether Haldir and company should kill them or not? Aragorn's pleas certainly didn't have that kind of urgency to them.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-29-2003, 05:34 PM	#4
elf_Legolas Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 15	I thought so too, realized it after I posted this thread __________________ When you tone big marshmellow!!

01-30-2003, 12:17 AM	#5
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Didn't notice, but I guess I will have to go back and check (needed a reason to watch my extended edition DVD ) though I didn't remember seeing that part. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

02-17-2003, 07:28 PM	#6
Lady Iverin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: far, far away Posts: 79	Yeah, I noticed that. But I think that because of what comes next in the extended version that they needed to change it. It's still confusing to newcomers though.<p>[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Lady Iverin ] __________________ ~O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! We still remember, we who dwell in this far land beneath the trees, Thy starlight on the Western seas.~

02-17-2003, 08:13 PM	#7
avarrogion Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Malaysia Posts: 120	Well it feels kinda weird at first...i mean after watching the old version and then the extended version and going back to the old version to look for out for the part...it just feels weird.... __________________ I might have been a slasher but I never killed children, only real men!...A mistake cannot make right by another mistake... ~Kenshin Himura~

02-18-2003, 09:32 AM	#8
engwaalphiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The edge of nowhere Posts: 89	Yes , with all the things added back in the extended version you remember what bit comes next from the first version . When it's different it makes you think about it for a moment or two! __________________ Estel............. Some have it more than others. "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!

02-18-2003, 09:14 PM	#9
Lady Alasse Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Gondolin, Middle Earth Posts: 103	Did anyone else find it kind of strange that in the extended edition, when Aragorn is fighting the big orc (Lurtz or something...) that after Aragorn stabs him with the dagger the orc pulls it out, licks it and throws it at him.<P>I've been wondering why he licked it for quite some time now (since last november...) __________________ He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken by my arms.-II Samuel 22:35

02-18-2003, 11:30 PM	#10
Rochelle Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Bonfire Glade RtR 80 miles Posts: 376	I personally think he licked it to spite Aragorn...to show one last stand of strength you know? Maybe to show Aragorn he can kill him but not hurt him...it's a pride thing lol<P>The thing that awed me the most about that scene was that Aragorn (Viggo) hit that dagger with his sword on the very first try. That's talent! __________________ Ad Astra Per Aspera (A rough road leads to the stars) "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens"

02-18-2003, 11:35 PM	#11
Rynoah, the Overly-Happy Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 474	To show how horribly disgusting Lurtz was? To make the audience cringe? To intimidate Aragorn to show he didn't feel the pain/didn't care? To make us Boromir fans want to take that dagger and stuff it up his nose? (Not that we didn't want to already...)<P>Many reasons, I think. __________________ Spook the spook of spookish spookdom to spook the spooked spookers. ?!?! This isn't Osgiliath! Do the wave for Boromir the Disco King! Eat squid for Boromir the Disco King!

02-20-2003, 01:51 PM	#12
aragornreborn Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 182	I agree with Rynoah, but it's also interesting that PJ denies that it was his idea. He did say he thought it was a nice touch though... Some people are sick. __________________ At the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. - Phil. 2:10-11

02-21-2003, 10:31 AM	#13
Nimiriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark - a long forgotten part of the Great Woods Posts: 37	Speaking of things missing in the extended edition: Is it just me or has one of Pip's lines been cut out in Moria? It's when Gandalf can't remember which of the three doors they sould take. While they rest and Gandalf think you hear this: Pip: Are we lost? Merry: No, Gandalf's thinking! Pip: Merry? Merry: What Pippin?! Pip: I'm hungry But from the first version I remeber it like this: Pip: Are we lost? Merry: No, Gandalf's thinking! Pip: I think we are! brief pause Pip: Merry? Merry: What Pippin?! Pip: I'm hungry Is it just me, or has a line been cut out??? I'm very confused! __________________ So says Nimiríel Stardaughter Writing original fantasy? Meet the Wordweavers at Fww Last edited by Nimiriel; 03-25-2004 at 10:24 AM.

02-21-2003, 10:55 AM	#14
Peri Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 124	Yes, I noticed that as well. If you think about it, it better that they left it out. Gimli says to Aragorn "We should go back." And then Haldir tells them they cannot go back. In the EV, Aragorn has to persuade Haldir to let them enter Lorien. It would have been very contradicting to leave that part in, though I do miss it. __________________ "Ah, but I'll begowk ye there!" cried the gentleman. "Play me false, and I'll play you cunning."

02-21-2003, 11:31 AM	#15
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	Lady Alasse - The scene with Lurtz and the knife, disturbing as it was, was taken directly from Tolkien. In the chapter "Tower of Cirith Ungol" when the two orcs are fighting, one stabs the other and then licks the blood off the knife.<P>I'm sure P.J. remembered that moment and thought it would be neat to throw in there. Or maybe it was the actor's idea. But either way, the original inspiration for that moment was from Tolkien.

02-21-2003, 07:29 PM	#16
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	If we are talking about stuff that was lost from the theatrical film, one line I was sorry to see go was from Gandalf very early on.<P>He says, "The world goes on, much as it has this past age, scarcely aware of the existence of hobbits, ..."<P>And then he adds, "for which I am very thankful."<P>McKellen does such a great job delivering this line and it conveys so much to the movie audience so efficiently. I remember this being one of the beats the first time I saw the film where I said to myself, "I'm really going to like this."<P>I can understand completely why it had to go though as Bilbo says much the same line in the new "Concerning Hobbits" intro.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-22-2003, 02:56 AM	#17
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Yeah, that whole entering Lórien scene was a bit flawed in my opinion. The extended version just confused the picture even more, and maybe they should have quite while they were ahead, and left it as it was in the original.<P>The thing that really gets me is the timeline of it. After the Fellowship leave Moria, Aragorn says that by nightfall the hills would be swarming with Orcs. After a bit of travelling, he sees Lórien at a distance. Then later, they are shown running in, and seem to have covered a good 10 km or so, as well as the descent from the Eastgate in just a few minutes. <P>Then Haldir shows up and refuses to let Aragorn out of his sight (come on, we all know the <I>real</I> reason he followed Viggo to Helm's Deep). They have a little conversation, start travelling on until nightfall, and then start talking again. Why did they not sort it out then and there? If Haldir doesn't want dwarfy boy in the Golden Wood, why bring him on a 6 hour journey deeper in?? I don't get it. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

02-22-2003, 11:30 AM	#18
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I'm not sure I'm following the problem here Doug.<P>Aragorn says that by nightfall these hills will be swarming with orcs, but that doesn't imply what time of day it is. Indeed, if it is several hours to the safety of Lothlorien, it still may be fairly early in the day.<P>Just because the journey to Lorien is covered in a couple of shots, doesn't mean it only took ten minutes. If they stuck true to impling the actual timelines, the movie would be little more then endlessly plodding along Fellowship members. Similarly, the fact that they are jogging to the forest is necessary to imply some sense of urgency and threat. They need to keep the movie moving. Does this make 100% logistic sense? Of course not, but it is necessary.<P>Once in the forest, Haldir leads them to the safety of the flets, as he does in the book. They arrived in the forest late in the day and are safely on the flets at nightfall. This makes sense to me.<P>There the true discussion as to whether they'll be allowed into Calas Galadhon begins. It's Aragorn doing most of the discussion (it is Legolas mostly in the book), but I think it is necessary to show that Aragorn is the leader here. The decision is made and by the next evening they are in Calas Galadhon.<P>Again, I don't think I see a problem.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-05-2004, 07:53 PM	#19
Annantar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: I have no idea Posts: 13	well I did not catch that, but I will next time I watch it though. But did u notice that everytime Elijah wood walks off the screen, he gets this really clueless look on his face; smiles, and the looks to the side. It looks so funny! Me and My friend were wathcing that movie alot at that time and we caught everything! Theres alot more that I could tell u, but theres just too much! __________________ I'm a sneaky little Hobbit!

01-05-2004, 08:45 PM	#20
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Yeah, I did notice that. I was a little suprised that Jackson actually altered the original version, but not disappointed or anything.

01-06-2004, 11:11 AM	#21
Nimiriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark - a long forgotten part of the Great Woods Posts: 37	Reading this thread over again I feel I must add that I enjoyed the new extended Lothlorien scene(s). I think it makes way more sense to people who haven't read the books. That's what I hear from my friends anyway. __________________ So says Nimiríel Stardaughter Writing original fantasy? Meet the Wordweavers at Fww

01-06-2004, 03:37 PM	#22
The Wraith Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: York Posts: 19	I think orcs(Uruk-hai in Lurtz's case)Like the taste of blood.I like it when Aragorn walks up to Lurtz and simply looks at him and cuts his head off!!! Especially when Lurtz is a brick sh*t house who is 7foot tall.Aragorn acting hard.....again