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#1 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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From The Tower of Cirith Ungol:
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What is not clear is what the spirits within the statues were. Quite possibly, they were not "living" spirits at all, but a form of enchantment - an artificially created and unliving awareness (a sort of ME motion sensor [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). Alternatively they may have been living spirits, possibly of some lesser form of Maiar, removed from their bodies and trapped within the stone. Personally, however, I think that there is a lot to be said for Meoshi's theory that Sauron imbued with them with a small part of his own will, in the same way that he invested a (greater) part of his will in the One Ring.
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#2 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
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You have a point about that. but i have another theory. what if Sauron tainted the spirits of the blue wizards and used their spirits in the watchers? so little is known of the blue wizards, it could be possible
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My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest... |
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#3 | ||||
Spectre of Decay
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Given the shortage of information about the fates of the Ithryn Luin, that is certainly a possibility; but I think it unlikely. Firstly, Tolkien does offer his own speculations about the fates of the Blue Wizards in Letter 211 (also cited in Unfinished Tales):
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Tolkien says of the Silent Watchers: Quote:
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That being said, though, I think that the Watchers are more effective in their narrative context for their inscrutability. The fact of their malicious will is enough for me: I don't need to know how it got there, and the feeling of the unknown that they evoke adds to their menace. That may even be why Tolkien left them unexplained.
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Man kenuva métim' andúne? Last edited by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh; 04-01-2007 at 04:44 AM. |
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#4 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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For me the imagery doesn't fit with the idea that these were a Numenorean device. When Sam passes through, Tolkien's language throughout is consistent with forcing a barrier, not using a key; especially since one immediate consequence is that an alarm goes off! As mentioned above, the name of Elbereth, combined with Earendil's light, somehow cows or suppresses evil wills, as with the Witch-king and Shelob.
I don't see the parallels with Orthanc, which may be odd or even forbidding, but which Tolkien never describes as 'hideous', nor does he ascribe 'malice' to anything not of Sauronian origin. |
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#5 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
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yes, but did not sauron take control of those lands? and maybe only one was caught. perhaps the other may have been tainted and placed in the watchers. and look at it this way. as you have said, "Sauron would have put them to better use than guardians of Cirith Ungol". if my theory is correct, perhaps they were like the seven dwarves. weak enough to taint, but too strong to take control of.
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My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest... |
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#6 | ||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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I think, however, that there were more than two Silent Watchers - I suppose at least two more were in Minas Morgul:
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So if the Blue Wizards were to become Silent Watchers (which I find unlikely, supported even by the evidence stated in posts above), we would need two more unknown Wizards to occupy the posts in Minas Morgul. I am more inclined to think about the "spirits", maybe even as hwaim said even trapped spirits of someone... but if you gave me the choice, I'd most likely side with Squatter: Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#7 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Blue wizards? If Sauron had somehow managed to trap Alatar's and Pallando's spirits, would he use them to guard the tower? Surely it was an important border place, but with Shelob already there, it feels like a huge waste of resources.
In general, I think the watchers were originally "ordinary" watch statues made by Númenóreans of great craft and skills and Sauron then set some evil spirits or some of his own power in them and thus made them "alive".
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#8 | ||
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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