The importance of intelligent debate

[Bill Ferny]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Passionate argument is not a bad thing at all, for passionate beliefs can be expressed in the most thought-provoking terms.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>PanMan (I swear to gawd!) cut it out! That was exactly, albeit wording a bit different, what I was going to post.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Kissing is sometimes an integral part of debate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why am I not surprised this was written by Lush?<P>There’s only one thing more annoying than unintelligent debate, irrelevant posts. So without further adieu I will make this post relevant.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Both groups are breaking all the rules of intelligent discussion: criticising people rather than their ideas, taking comments about the film personally and choosing their words apparently at random, with no thought to their possible interpretation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Criticism of one’s ideas is extremely close to criticism of the person. Few things are more dear and revealing of the thinker than his ideas. Ideas, even more than the eyes, are a window into the soul and mind. Criticism, though, is not necessarily negative criticism, and more often than not it is the way the criticism is taken that makes it negative.<P>Which brings me to the second rule. Only if one takes criticism as an insult do we have a problem. I never try to criticize anyone’s ideas or opinions with the intention of insulting others, nor do I think that others criticize my ideas or opinions in order to insult me. How one takes and gives criticism is a sign of maturity. If you find yourself getting upset over someone’s criticism of your ideas, then maybe you need to check your maturity level.<P>That’s not to say that I haven’t indirectly insulted someone on this forum due to an opinion. One time in particular, my opinion, which admittedly is an insulting opinion to many people, was indeed taken as insult. Still, its an opinion, one that I think is correct, that was not aimed specifically at anyone in particular on this forum, and was valid given the subject of the thread. Those who did take it personally, I don’t apologize, but I do respect your right to disagree with me with every fiber of your being. I fully expect you tell me I’m wrong, but I also expect to hear reasons why you think I’m wrong. Who knows? You might change my mind.<P>I’ve been through ten years of higher education… believe me, I’ve been told that I was wrong so often that I’m amazed that I’m not the #1 flamed member on the forum. You guys are so much easier than my mates, profs, and students. That aside, being told you are wrong is a good thing. It gives you the chance to formulate and articulate your argument… and in doing so the chance to re-think your argument. Plenty of times in the re-thinking and re-researching I’ve discovered that I most certainly was wrong. On rarer occasions it forced me to harden and temper my position, making my argument more affective and convincing. The short of it is this… if you can’t take being told your wrong, don’t involve yourself in any debate.<P>Which brings me to the last rule. When one takes something as insult, the warrior instincts kick in, the flight or fight hormones rage from gland, to brain, to typing fingers. Not necessarily a bad thing unless it makes you a blabbering idiot who can’t do anything but repeat in caps lock what you’ve already said with a few choice words thrown in for good measure. From my observations of many threads in the movies section, this is exactly what is going on. The above advice is excellent, namely to type a response on Word, go away, come back and read… and then DELETE it, because it stinks! Now go back and re-research your points and the other’s counter-points, and honestly try to make your argument more affective.<P>I commend everyone here for your efforts, Squatter especially, to bring Tolkien discussion and debate to an honorable and chivalrous plane.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think one of the reasons that the discussions are not as intelligent on the Movie forum than the other forms is that this is mostly made up of the fairly new posters (fangirl problems).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe. However, I still reserve the right to engage in unintelligent debate if I so choose. I’m happy the forum moderators provide me with this freedom but at the same time keeping it reasonable. Part of the issue here is redundant posts and redundant threads which has already been discussed in the Barrow Downs section.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>…when I first posted about liking the movie, dispite its flaws, I picked the wrong thread. I picked one called "Bad PJ" (or something like that). I immediatly got flamed for "thread invasion" (my words here) , and I understand. It was suggested I go to one of the "I love the movie" threads and carry on, or start a new thread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe its just me, but the suggestion to move to a different thread to express an opinion at variance with the original post or the majority of posters on the thread would have induced me to stay and spar with inspired vigor and zeal as long as my posts remained on subject. I would do that for no other reason than to challenge a bunch of minds long overdue for some challenging.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think disapointment causes more anger than practically any other emotion!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well taught.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>…whenever I post I will try to be on my best behavior.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good advice for everyone, I suppose. However, I urge everyone to bear with us human beings. We are prone to fall, and there are members (*cough*lush*cough*) who find it very hard to be on their best behavior due to their mischievous natures. Personally, I think the forum is better off for them.