What's the worst that can happen?

[HCIsland]

From what I've read, I agree with Estel that scenes with a physical Sauron (other than the prologue) have definately been filmed. The question remains as to how much will make the final cut. Jackson is well known for shooting mountains of film in varieties of ways and then sorting it out in the editing room, so none of us really knows for sure until we see the final film.<P>Having said that, I disagree entirely that having a physical Sauron disagrees with the book or "is an invention of the filmmakers and does not represent Tolkien's intent". <P>There is nothing in the book that suggests Sauron does not have a physical form. In fact, when characters like Gollum and Shagrat talk about him, it sounds like they are talking about a physical person. Likely the reason that Sauron doesn't appear in the book is because of the way in which Tolkien chose to present his story. Lord of the Rings is meant to be a translation of the history of the War of the Ring, as told by those that participated in it, particular the four hobbits. This is part of what gives the book it's wonderful sense of authenticity but it meant that if Tolkien wanted to present Sauron in the book, he would have had to have one of his main characters interact with him.<P>Saruman got the same treatment. We only get first hand accounts of Saruman after Isengard is destroyed and the hobbits get a chance to meet the guy. Outside of Gandalf's brief description of the events of his imprisonment on Orthanc to the Council of Elrond, Saruman is completely absent up until this moment of the book. I think it would have been a mistake for Jackson to not have the extra scenes with Saruman in Orthance in the first two movies, and for the same reason I think it is completely appropriate to have scenes of Sauron in Barad-dur in the third. In fact, I want to see them. This freedom of perspective is an advantage that a film has over a novel and Jackson should feel free to take advantage of it.<P>Now Sauron fighting Aragorn ... that's a completely different argument. I for one won't judge something until I've seen it, but I can fully understand people's apprehension.<P>H.C.

[arianrod]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hmmm, there is of course a chance that the guy in the armour isn't supposed to be Sauron but the Mouth of Sauron instead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's a theory I thought of too, Lord Melkor. That's what I thought Estel meant by Sauron 'appearing' and confronting Aragorn in battle, as that is who confronted the army at the Black Gates in the book. I remember seeing a person cast as the Mouth of Sauron on a cast list somewhere, though I could be wrong. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>This freedom of perspective is an advantage that a film has over a novel and Jackson should feel free to take advantage of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A very interesting statement, HCI. I know I've been in discussions before about whether or not Sauron took physical form, so it's not completely out of the question. Since we're seeing the entire story here, outside of the limit of the characters' point of view, it would make sense to show the *whole* story. Well said! *applauds* <p>[ August 25, 2003: Message edited by: arianrod ]

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hmmm, there is of course a chance that the guy in the armour isn't supposed to be Sauron but the Mouth of Sauron instead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Unfortunatly I think this is extremly unlikely. It's a good effort for those of you optimitic souls, but I've already seen pics of the Mouth of Sauron getting his face 'made up'. Therefore it's unlikly that he'll appear in armour. Plus there's PJ talking about the need for the audience to 'see' Sauron in human form. So it's very unlikly it's just the Mouth of Sauron. Although I hate to douse water on your hopes...if I could hope for anything else I would .<p>[ August 26, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hm... I'm not sure what the worst scene would be, but I can think of some pretty bad ones...<P>*They cut my favorite line with Aragorn and Merry after Merry and Eowyn kill the Witchking (the one with the herb-master and how he'll give him all sorts of other names and histories for pipe-weed and then after a whole lot of dithering, say he hasn't got any.)<BR>*They'll cut Ioreth and her wives-tales<BR>*They have Arwen in any part of the movie except the wedding (added fear: the wedding will last for more than 10 minutes)<P>Well... I came up with the worst, and sadly they already cut it- The Scouring of the Shire. They'd better put it in the E.E., or I'll... I'll.... I'll track down Peter Jackson and I'll beat him 'til his skin won't hold water!!!!!!!<P>Fea

[HCIsland]

Oh Feanor, are you in trouble.<P>If I were a betting man, I would bet every one of your fears will come to pass and don't get your hopes up about the Scouring of the Shire. It won't be in any special edition. The footage they use for the special editions is stuff originally shot that they cut out. None of the material in the special editions are pick-ups and no Scouring of the Shire was ever shot.<P>H.C.

[Thalionmar]

Im dissapointed about the lack of the scouring. Its a great chapter (as they all are.) and it would have been interesting to see PJs interpretation of Sarumans maia spirit floating above his corpse.<P>I wonder how Saruman will be disposed of? Maybe it will happen when Gandalf breaks his staff?<P>I also agree about the Arwen thing but on the other hand, I would get to see more Liv Tyler.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and don't get your hopes up about the Scouring of the Shire. It won't be in any special edition. The footage they use for the special editions is stuff originally shot that they cut out. None of the material in the special editions are pick-ups and no Scouring of the Shire was ever shot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I thought pretty much everyone knew this a while ago, but since it's been proved different many a time by now, I've simply given up & am going to let them find out for themselves sooner or later (like maybe when they seen RotK? :eek )<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I wonder how Saruman will be disposed of? Maybe it will happen when Gandalf breaks his staff?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wormtounge cuts his throat & then throws him off the top of Orthanc (he will <I>probably</I> be impaled by a spiked wheel that breaks his fall, but take that with a grain of salt). Then Legolas shoot Wormtounge in a very cheesy way. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I also agree about the Arwen thing but on the other hand, I would get to see more Liv Tyler.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not to be mean to her, but she's not much to look at, in these particular movies at least.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Oh.. I feel you give him too hard a time :P.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was mostly joking with the 'precisely'. The haven't gotten over so far is him having Faramir be like Boromir (basically) & having him take the hobbits to Osgiliath. Even the Osgiliath scene I could've gotten over, if it weren't for Frodo walking straight up to the Blackrider & pulling out the Ring. That part seemed lame. But what was lamer was that Faramir decided to let Frodo go after seeing him nearly give away the Ring to the enemy. Surely even PJ's Faramir would realize that keeping the Ring in Gondor can hardly be worse than sending it with a hobbit who's prone to pulling it out in front of Blackriders , especially 'cause Faramir won't always be there to shoot a bolt into the 'winged beast'.

[HCIsland]

For me, the absolute worse that can happen is that they screw up Grey Havens. I need to have the message that Frodo sacraficed the life he had (and would do it again) in order that others (represented by Sam) could have it.<P>H.C.