Prophetic Elves? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kalimac · 12-06-2003, 12:15 AM

In the book, Elrond and Galadriel do silently communicate, so you could call that a basic telepathy - maybe not the sort that can be turned on and off at will, or where the communicators know *exactly* what's being said in words (a general feeling might be more like it) but telepathy nonetheless. So I can buy the scenes where Elrond and Galadriel are "thinking" to each other; they're in a very high-stress, emotional situation and might be able to communicate in ways not ordinarily open to them. And of course, there's the Elven-ring factor. <P>Similarly with prophecy; as the Sibyl at Cumae showed, prophecies can be true and yet very unclear until they're fulfilled. I can believe that Galadriel and Elrond would have single revelations on the lines of "He is not coming back" or "The quest will claim his life" but that doesn't mean they necessarily saw all the circumstances surrounding these facts. They just saw one point of the future briefly uncovered, and nothing of what led up to it. They may not have known themselves whether "He is not coming back" meant that Aragorn would die in battle or be crowned King or whichever. All Elrond would know is that he could not sense that Aragorn would ever return to Rivendell. All of these things are like glimpses, not like methodical prediction, so while Tolkien didn't go this far in the books it seems a reasonable extension. <P>The part in the movies that bothers me is where Galadriel says something along the lines of "The young captain of Gondor has only stretch out his hand to claim the Ring" or something along those lines; anyway, it implies that not only is she sensing Frodo's ultimate fate (possible) but moreover that she knows pretty closely where he is and whom he's with. This seems too ... specific. It's like she has a palantir squirrelled away somewhere. And it seems strange, from a movie-perspective, that Galadriel and Elrond would be able to keep such close track of Frodo and yet be able to do nothing to help him. Granted, there's little they could do at this point, but the idea that they're somehow watching all the action at a safe distance, a la Vietnam, just feels wrong.<p>[ 1:19 AM December 06, 2003: Message edited by: Kalimac ]

12-06-2003, 12:15 AM	#1
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	In the book, Elrond and Galadriel do silently communicate, so you could call that a basic telepathy - maybe not the sort that can be turned on and off at will, or where the communicators know exactly what's being said in words (a general feeling might be more like it) but telepathy nonetheless. So I can buy the scenes where Elrond and Galadriel are "thinking" to each other; they're in a very high-stress, emotional situation and might be able to communicate in ways not ordinarily open to them. And of course, there's the Elven-ring factor. <P>Similarly with prophecy; as the Sibyl at Cumae showed, prophecies can be true and yet very unclear until they're fulfilled. I can believe that Galadriel and Elrond would have single revelations on the lines of "He is not coming back" or "The quest will claim his life" but that doesn't mean they necessarily saw all the circumstances surrounding these facts. They just saw one point of the future briefly uncovered, and nothing of what led up to it. They may not have known themselves whether "He is not coming back" meant that Aragorn would die in battle or be crowned King or whichever. All Elrond would know is that he could not sense that Aragorn would ever return to Rivendell. All of these things are like glimpses, not like methodical prediction, so while Tolkien didn't go this far in the books it seems a reasonable extension. <P>The part in the movies that bothers me is where Galadriel says something along the lines of "The young captain of Gondor has only stretch out his hand to claim the Ring" or something along those lines; anyway, it implies that not only is she sensing Frodo's ultimate fate (possible) but moreover that she knows pretty closely where he is and whom he's with. This seems too ... specific. It's like she has a palantir squirrelled away somewhere. And it seems strange, from a movie-perspective, that Galadriel and Elrond would be able to keep such close track of Frodo and yet be able to do nothing to help him. Granted, there's little they could do at this point, but the idea that they're somehow watching all the action at a safe distance, a la Vietnam, just feels wrong.<p>[ 1:19 AM December 06, 2003: Message edited by: Kalimac ] __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.