Did I just see 'Gandalf' throw 'Denethor' into the pyre? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Finwe · 12-19-2003, 12:04 PM

I think it was an editing screw-up. That scene did seem rather strange to me. I'm going to go see Return of the King again tonight, and I'm going to make sure what I saw was Gandalf kicking poor Denethor's arse, and then "nudging" him into the pyre. Even though I also don't like the implications of that action, if Peter meant it to look like that, I think that we haven't been giving him enough credit for his brilliance. Tolkien took Denethor out of the picture because Aragorn HAD to become King of Gondor. Now, if we change that "realization" to an idea in Gandalf's mind, wouldn't he have "nudged" Denethor into the pyre? Gandalf knew that Denethor's madness was too far gone for him to listen to any reason about Aragorn. Gandalf also knew that it was definitely not Faramir's time to die. As soon as Faramir was saved, Gandalf knew that Denethor HAD to die, and that is exactly what happened. Denethor died.<P>(Am I making any sense?)

12-19-2003, 12:04 PM	#14
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I think it was an editing screw-up. That scene did seem rather strange to me. I'm going to go see Return of the King again tonight, and I'm going to make sure what I saw was Gandalf kicking poor Denethor's arse, and then "nudging" him into the pyre. Even though I also don't like the implications of that action, if Peter meant it to look like that, I think that we haven't been giving him enough credit for his brilliance. Tolkien took Denethor out of the picture because Aragorn HAD to become King of Gondor. Now, if we change that "realization" to an idea in Gandalf's mind, wouldn't he have "nudged" Denethor into the pyre? Gandalf knew that Denethor's madness was too far gone for him to listen to any reason about Aragorn. Gandalf also knew that it was definitely not Faramir's time to die. As soon as Faramir was saved, Gandalf knew that Denethor HAD to die, and that is exactly what happened. Denethor died.<P>(Am I making any sense?) __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.