One hand tied behind their backs

[HerenIstarion]

BTW, I've just noticed my previous post eliminates the statement in one preceeding it: so, yes, balrogs could have been formed at the same time as dragons (but not Balrogs, of course)

[HerenIstarion]

I'm bringing this up for several reasons:

• I would like to have a bit more of feedback (though I believe (now) the post has no flaws, there is nothing better to check it than good discussion). The post is also placed at my own web page as an article, I would modify it accordingly if anything pops up to change my views on the subject considerably.
• I haven't seen no balrog discussions lately, and it is already almost a tradition to have those spooky things discussed on any decent Tolkien related board
• Besides reasons related to post #32, initial posts are of great value and I would like to see them discussed by good thinkers (davem for one, per instance) which were not around at the time of initial posts being written
• If Saulotus a.k.a. Bob Wehadababyitsaboy, whom I owe a lot in this case, is still lurking in the shadows somewhere around the board, I hope to lure him out into the light, to back me up or shatter the whole thing to smithereens
• And last but not the least (aknowledging my vanity, alas, can not do anything about it at the moment), as any author, even those who dare not confess the thing, I want recognition!

So up it goes!

[symestreem]

I went looking for Balrog/balrog information, and instead I found information for the original thread!

Suddenly at the top of the stair there was a stab of white light. Then there was a dull rumble and a heavy thud. The drum-beats broke out wildly: doom-boom, doom-boom, doom-boom, and then stopped. Gandalf came flying down the steps and fell to the ground in the midst of the Company.

"But I have met my match, and nearly been destroyed."

Gandalf

"Then something came into the chamber- I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and fell silent. It laid hold of the iron ring, and then it perceived me and my spell."
"What it was I cannot guees, but I have never felt such a challenge. The counter-spell was terrible. It nearly broke me. For an instant the door left my control and began to open! I had to speak a word of Command. That proved too great a strain. The door burst in pieces. Something dark as a cloud was blocking all the light inside, and I was thrown backwards down the stairs. All the wall gave way, and the roof of the chamber as well, I think."

Gandalf

These quotes indicate several things: The creature that Gandalf fought was a Balrog, because only an Ainu could defeat him in terms of sorcery, and broken his staff (shades of Saruman?) Also, in this passage he most definitely met force with force, so his hands couldn't have been bound too tightly. Also, how did the Balrog get out of Balin's burial chamber? Did he physically dig himself out, melt the rock, or... ? I think the effects of the first two would have been noticed before the Company escaped Moria. But if he was embodied, how could he or she teleport?

HerenIstarion, I'm not davem, but that's an excellent article! Another quote used in the balrog wars is this:

...and its wings were spread from wall to wall...

[HerenIstarion]

symestreem for two, per instance

[HerenIstarion]

Just stumbled upon this thread again

Symestreem, the quote you refer to is preceeded with:

His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings.

and in itself runs as follows:

It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall

emphases mine. It seems that drawing 'to a great height' is not quite physical process, but shadowlike, and so wings are of shadow - for if Balrog were of a given stature, the change of height would require some 'were' abilities (as, per instance, Beorn is werebear). But there is no textual evidence of Balrogs being shape-shifters.

But that seemed not too relevant to what the post #32 up above dealt with, so I haven't stressed on wing issue at all