Are You Writing Serious Fantasy? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

bombur · 09-14-2002, 02:02 AM

Interresting thoughts from everyone.

Nar arose interresting question...

I'd have to say, I do not think it is possible to make Liberte, Equalite, Fraternite appear in fantasy. Also the big 3 of the finn 60's communists: Peace, Friendship, Solidarity are impossible. Nor the more international versions like Power to the people demand can be used. Why?

It is really perhaps anwser to this that makes my philosophical nature obvious.

Demand for political liberties emphasised in todays democracy (liberty, equality, power to the poeple) were linked to the rise of bourgoise, class that was as educated and capable as nobility but lacked their political power. This soon widened into demand of economically equal status (equality, brotherhood, solidarity, socialism) by class for whom daily bread and not political equality was matter of survival, the proletariat.

All in all, we cannot put such demands into the mouth of fantasy street agitator, unless we also fill our Gondor with shirt "manufactures" - pre-form of factories, artsanly sweatshops.

And if we do this, then we give up the black and white quality of fantasy and move into the real world of shades of grey, where good and evil are not so prevalent motive, but rather dialectic conflicts in which various INTERPRETATIONS, consepts of society and its good are at odds.

My recipe for fantasy is this:

Never get into societys conflicts save the odd slave revolt in the footsteps of Spartacus (And I do NOT mean the latest movie), if you do that, you go into the shades of grey area. Half of your readers will be inclined to emphatise with the other side the other half the other. Your writing will come to reflect this anticipation.

Instead make the villain purely evil whether by overwhelming lust to dominate or by some mystic theme. If he eats babies for breakfast, then defeating him is matter of survival for everyone and there is no room for interpretation and you can write black and white fantasy stuff.

And if you want to create a "utopia" society to be threatened by the Big Evil One, then do it along the guidelines of anarchistic tribal society or "noble savage" consept.

Thats what I think.

Janne Harju

09-14-2002, 02:02 AM	#11
bombur Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: finland Posts: 126	Interresting thoughts from everyone. Nar arose interresting question... I'd have to say, I do not think it is possible to make Liberte, Equalite, Fraternite appear in fantasy. Also the big 3 of the finn 60's communists: Peace, Friendship, Solidarity are impossible. Nor the more international versions like Power to the people demand can be used. Why? It is really perhaps anwser to this that makes my philosophical nature obvious. Demand for political liberties emphasised in todays democracy (liberty, equality, power to the poeple) were linked to the rise of bourgoise, class that was as educated and capable as nobility but lacked their political power. This soon widened into demand of economically equal status (equality, brotherhood, solidarity, socialism) by class for whom daily bread and not political equality was matter of survival, the proletariat. All in all, we cannot put such demands into the mouth of fantasy street agitator, unless we also fill our Gondor with shirt "manufactures" - pre-form of factories, artsanly sweatshops. And if we do this, then we give up the black and white quality of fantasy and move into the real world of shades of grey, where good and evil are not so prevalent motive, but rather dialectic conflicts in which various INTERPRETATIONS, consepts of society and its good are at odds. My recipe for fantasy is this: Never get into societys conflicts save the odd slave revolt in the footsteps of Spartacus (And I do NOT mean the latest movie), if you do that, you go into the shades of grey area. Half of your readers will be inclined to emphatise with the other side the other half the other. Your writing will come to reflect this anticipation. Instead make the villain purely evil whether by overwhelming lust to dominate or by some mystic theme. If he eats babies for breakfast, then defeating him is matter of survival for everyone and there is no room for interpretation and you can write black and white fantasy stuff. And if you want to create a "utopia" society to be threatened by the Big Evil One, then do it along the guidelines of anarchistic tribal society or "noble savage" consept. Thats what I think. Janne Harju