we wonders, precious, we wonders *gollum* - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

radagastly · 04-07-2004, 09:07 AM

The name itself may have been inspired by "golem," a legend of a creature formed from clay and brought to life through the mysteries of the Kabbalah to be a servent of its maker. The stories I was able to find on the internet seem to all come from eastern Europe, and they all give the impression (to me) that they were stories told to frighten children, like a ghost story before bed-time. I believe Tolkien spent some time in Poland as a child. He may have heard the story there. Of course this is just a theory of mine. Maybe some of our more learned Barrow-downers can shed more light on it.

Ainaserkewen · 04-07-2004, 01:18 PM

I was just thinking that Radagastly.

Who can try and explain what weird, comical quirks that Smeagol developed after all those years? Whether or not they actually were supposed to mean something other than direct side-effects of his life...who knows.

ElanorGamgee · 04-07-2004, 02:15 PM

At an on-campus Tolkien forum I recently attended, I believe the professor mentioned that the name Gollum can be traced back to the Indoeuropean root word for "throat," gol, which could also mean "greed."

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-07-2004, 03:04 PM

Radagastly, that's an interesting thought, but I have my doubts as to whether Tolkien was influenced by the 'golem' legends. As far as I remember from the biography, he was never in Poland, certainly not as a child.

***Sharkû*** · 04-07-2004, 06:49 PM

As far as I can remember, the Golem legend is completely fictitious and relatively recent, and the animation of an artificial creature is attributed to a Rabbi from Prague, CZ. I as well have my doubts that Tolkien would have needed to be inspired by that to name one of his characters after a simple guttural sound.

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 04-07-2004, 09:00 PM

Quote:

As far as I can remember, the Golem legend is completely fictitious and relatively recent, and the animation of an artificial creature is attributed to a Rabbi from Prague, CZ. I as well have my doubts that Tolkien would have needed to be inspired by that to name one of his characters after a simple guttural sound.

As do I. I find it doubtful that he had even heard of the Golem... and you're completely correct, Sharkû (I used to live in Prague). I think it just originates from the sound, and nothing more.

HerenIstarion · 04-08-2004, 04:30 AM

Quote:

find it doubtful that he had even heard of the Golem

No knowing. After all, he was a man of broad education and agile mind. And if even I have heard of Golem, why not Tolkien. That does not imply I think Gollum was influenced by Golem, just stand up in defence of much admired Professor's erudition

Why did Gollum utter such noises re: (with a condition of taking what follows at its face value, i.e. as a speculation):

Gollum might have had sustained cold (what with lack of clothes and constant living in dark, cold and wet places)

04-07-2004, 01:18 PM	#2
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 651	I was just thinking that Radagastly. Who can try and explain what weird, comical quirks that Smeagol developed after all those years? Whether or not they actually were supposed to mean something other than direct side-effects of his life...who knows. __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?

04-07-2004, 02:15 PM	#3
ElanorGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 314	At an on-campus Tolkien forum I recently attended, I believe the professor mentioned that the name Gollum can be traced back to the Indoeuropean root word for "throat," gol, which could also mean "greed." __________________ Soli Deo Gloria

04-07-2004, 03:04 PM	#4
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Radagastly, that's an interesting thought, but I have my doubts as to whether Tolkien was influenced by the 'golem' legends. As far as I remember from the biography, he was never in Poland, certainly not as a child. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-07-2004, 09:07 AM	#1
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	The name itself may have been inspired by "golem," a legend of a creature formed from clay and brought to life through the mysteries of the Kabbalah to be a servent of its maker. The stories I was able to find on the internet seem to all come from eastern Europe, and they all give the impression (to me) that they were stories told to frighten children, like a ghost story before bed-time. I believe Tolkien spent some time in Poland as a child. He may have heard the story there. Of course this is just a theory of mine. Maybe some of our more learned Barrow-downers can shed more light on it.

04-07-2004, 06:49 PM	#5
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	As far as I can remember, the Golem legend is completely fictitious and relatively recent, and the animation of an artificial creature is attributed to a Rabbi from Prague, CZ. I as well have my doubts that Tolkien would have needed to be inspired by that to name one of his characters after a simple guttural sound.