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03-11-2004, 12:16 AM | #81 |
Beholder of the Mists
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now
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Yes, I do have to agree with Knight of Gondor. These complaints have been heard before, and they can all be discussed in their proper places in the Barrow-Downs forum.
And to add... I do to understand many of your complaints about the films, for I also agree with many of them (even though I very much love the films). But I was very pleased about the Oscars. It was nice that they actually rewarded the true best film of the year, instead of one that none of the actual public ever saw.
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03-25-2004, 05:11 PM | #82 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hobbit hole in Western WA
Posts: 31
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Okay, I didn't have time to read through this entire thread so forgive me if I'm repeating things that have already been said. Here goes...
I LOVED the movies! The only things that really bugged me were the things that were internally inconsistent (not necessarily the things that were changed from the books). The two things that stick out are: 1. Entmoot. The ents didn't decide to go to war at the entmoot, and then suddenly when Treebeard sees the chopped trees they all rush off to attack Isengaurd. Seems a little hasty to me, and they made the point in the movie that the ents are NOT supposed to be hasty. 2. Sam leaving Frodo. "Don't you leave him, Samwise Gamgee." I think it was against Sam's character to leave Frodo, especially when Frodo was just about to enter the most dangerous stage of the quest, and with a very unsavory character no less (who Sam had guessed was planning to murder them both). But whatever. I'm so thankful the movies turned out as well as they did!
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03-25-2004, 08:52 PM | #83 |
Wight
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Shizuku, ye see the problem with that, it's much easier for people to relate to someone who has human fears and faults. It's a simple fact of life that no one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. It's much more believable for Theoden to be angry at Gondor. He's been watching his people die, and Gondor didn't answer his call for help, so why should he? Besides, in the movies, at least, they did not send an official plea of help until the Beacons, and Theoden rode after they were lit.
Aragorn's strength in the books is much more different than the movies. In the books, I saw him as the kind of loud hero. In the movies, he's much more quiet. And who can blame movie Aragorn for resisting his rule? He knows what happened to Isildur. And yet, he resists the ring. He lets Frodo go. Eowyn, I've heard people say, is much less stoic. I don't necessarily see that. Of course she's a bit warmer around Aragorn, she loves him. Of course she's a bit warmer around Theoden, she's so joyful that he's well and strong again. What I'm saying is, it's not just because of people's cynicism, it's reality. People are not always gonna be strong and brave and fearless. I love heroes as much as the next, but people need characters to relate to.
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The Warrior Hobbit Nîn o Chithaeglir, lasto beth daer; Rimmo nîn Bruinen, dan in Ulaer! |
03-26-2004, 10:13 PM | #84 | ||||||||||||||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Shizuku, I think you make a really good point!
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<<They never mentioned The Elessar, which Galadriel used to grow Lorien and which Arwen uses as an ornament...>> I believe you are confusing a couple of jewels here. The Evenstar was Arwen’s ornament. The Elessar was the green stone that Galadriel gave to Aragorn, and I believe she used Nenya to aid in the growth and protection of Lórien. Quote:
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is a mug of beer inside this Took!” You can drink your fancy ales, you can drink 'em by the flagon! But the only brew for the brave and true comes from that Green Dragon!” “Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare þe ure maegen lytlað” Quote:
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*Brandishes sword* Who else wants to object to the movie?
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Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16 |
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03-27-2004, 05:59 AM | #85 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: at sea
Posts: 27
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Just because they didn’t show it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. In movies, it’s a little difficult to show the passing of time. But with shots of Frodo and Sam exploring Rivendell, and with the Council, and with Aragorn’s slight encounter with Boromir in Elrond’s library, it’s somewhat evident that time passes. Heck, for the extended edition, that’s where disc one ends! Kind of like the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. There’s a lot of space in between!
Aragorn and Boromir? Shouldn't that have been Aragorn and Bilbo? You’ve got a lot of people that join you there...but if you only “think” it was Glorfindal...! If you only mean: "hey"...! Repeating this again, but if you’re going to judge PJ for his adaptation, then judge it by merit of the extended edition, which might just as well be called the Director’s cut. Peter Jackson showed the special relationship between Gimli and Galadriel there. Granted, he did not show the three hairs, but in the behind-the-scenes, the actor who plays Gimli, John Ryce-Davis explains the cinematic difficulties of showing three hairs to the audience. That wasn't Danny DeVito? Is that why Galadriel didn't say a single word to Gimli in that movie? A common lament. Check out TheOneRing.net’s pictures of those two, however. Like a comic book? I believe you are confusing a couple of jewels here. The Evenstar was Arwen’s ornament. The Elessar was the green stone that Galadriel gave to Aragorn, and I believe she used Nenya to aid in the growth and protection of Lórien. See: the two legends of the Elessar. What is the relationship between the White Ring(Galadriel's) and Sea Longing? Evenstar refers to...? Believe me, no one is more upset about seeing that beautiful white tree look like a tilting geezer. It should, at the least, have been straight and pretty. Either way, there was so much to cram in, I can just barely understand PJ’s need to shorten it all. I hope to see more of it in the EE. The sapling, or the tree that was destroyed? Éomer became the king. Éowyn did marry Faramir. They just can’t show Éomer becoming king very well (audience could get a little confused; two crownings?), and they probably will expound a little on Éowyn and Faramir. Theoden indicated Eowyn. When was the wedding? Two crownings or two Realms? |
03-27-2004, 10:49 PM | #86 | |||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Also please keep in mind that this topic is to remain friendly, though we may disagree. I read your comments as sniping and derogatory, but will not respond in kind. Quote:
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Please go back and re-read this topic, as I am only repeating myself again.
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Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16 |
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03-28-2004, 01:27 PM | #87 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: at sea
Posts: 27
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What is the difference between question and commentary? Examine subjectivity and objectivity in relation to human attitude and response. View political theories, patriotism as compared to anachronism and interrelated religious and philosophical ideas. |
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03-28-2004, 04:27 PM | #88 | |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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03-28-2004, 05:31 PM | #89 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Yes, I've already been reminded once that LotR has opened for (and has been loved by) audiences that live in other countries. I just love mine so much, I tend to forgot about the others, ha ha!
Nonetheless, I don't believe I made that particular error again, did I?
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Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16 |
03-28-2004, 06:00 PM | #90 | ||||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Some points of order
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03-28-2004, 10:00 PM | #91 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I can understand where some people might think that LotR is actually TOO concretely right and wrong. (Especially with that line about having to fight a war, even though you don't feel like risking it? Peace activist Mortenson, grit your pearly whites!) The movie itself couldn't have been more clear about right and wrong. It's just a shame that the writers and staff don't like that idea quite so much.
Please see this link: http://www.boundless.org/features/a0000860.html If this does not bring you to it, visit the base website, Boundless.org and go to archives, type in Megan Basham's name, and find the article "Tolkien versus Jackson". I will not post it here because that is a side issue, off-track from fault-finding in the movies. Nevertheless, I found it to be an excellent article.
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Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16 |
03-29-2004, 05:39 AM | #92 |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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Knight of Gondor, it's a very interesting article, (although I personally disagree with it!) Perhaps you should start another thread in the movie forum to discuss it.
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04-07-2004, 12:40 PM | #93 |
Wight
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Jackson did an exellent job with the movie. How much can we Tolkienfans expect?
If it wasn't for Jackson there would proboably be a tenthousen times worse movie. If another director had taken the job of filmatizing the book, he might just look at the project as a job. Jackson has put tens of years into this trilogi because he wanted to. New Line Cinema didn't throw the book in PJ's face and say: ''do whatever you like, just make it good enough to sell.'' As for time passing in movies: just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen!!!!!! The Hobbits ate very much, so what do you think happened a few hours after a meal? Just because we didn't see anyone sneaking behind a bush, doesn't mean they kept it in until the war was over! It's a movie, not some crazy reality about elves and hobbits!
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04-07-2004, 12:43 PM | #94 |
Wight
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cair Paravel during the Golden Age of Narnia
Posts: 146
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I think the theatrical versions are good. and the EE's are better.
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04-07-2004, 01:14 PM | #95 | |
Wight
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A Sparrow can't change it's feathers |
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04-08-2004, 08:41 PM | #96 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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*Ehem* Well, if you abridged me a whole lot, that's basically how I feel too.
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Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16 |
04-09-2004, 05:12 PM | #97 |
Wight
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cair Paravel during the Golden Age of Narnia
Posts: 146
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Hey, if you want anything profound out of me, you'll have to visit with me at Narnia web site. I'm better at keeping things short then I am at expounding my full reasons. :-)
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04-09-2004, 08:37 PM | #98 |
Animated Skeleton
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Geez... this is really getting quite annoying...
The dude took eight years of his life to adapt a thousand-something pages book, ya can't expect him to follow every, single, darn word! If so, he'd probably have to make one movie for every three or four chapters, and seriously, who'd want to sit through all of Tom Bombadil's silly songs? At least he actually took the time to make the films, let's see you do better, and if ya don't like it, then just don't watch it! They actually gave some excuses concerning some of the changes, and most of those excuses are really acceptable... but if you're just too stubborn to accept them, then like my history teacher used to say: "Too bad, so sad, tear "
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Here I set it, but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir. |
04-12-2004, 09:04 PM | #99 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Yeah, but they have the right to critique the movie. I just get to defend it! I have a few issues with the movie too, of course, I think it is far from perfect. I just think that this version is pretty much the best that Hollywood could have given us.
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Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16 |
05-08-2004, 07:31 PM | #100 | ||||
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
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