Lament for the Elves

[Bêthberry]

Dear Imladris,

I wish to make a comment here on behalf of the mods of all the RPG fora, but I am sure my words do not preclude comments from Pio, Child, Mith and others.

All games at the Barrow Downs must be true to the spirit of Tolkien and not merely a general form of fantasy or Middle Age scenario. It is true that as gamers move from The Shire to Rohan to Gondor, there are greater expectations for understanding Tolkien's Middle earth and greater scope for interpreting his work. In fact, the Golden Hall for Rohan explicitly states the expectation that gamers will know the books and not merely Peter Jackson's movies.

That said, if you as the Game Founder are uncomfortable with aspects of the posts in your game, I would think you could contact your gamers via PM and explain your thoughts, asking them to reconsider their phrasing.

I do this regularly as I moderate games and The White Horse in Rohan and I know that Pio and Child also help new gamers understand Middle earth in The Shire.

Of course, I think your thread is about more than just our games here; it is, as I see it, related to issues of how books are read and interpreted. In literary theory, this is referred to as the cultural dissemination of books (which is akin to but different from literary criticism).

There are wide-ranging ways in which we come to know texts. Some authors are part of the cultural furniture with which we furnish and decorate our houses of the imagination. People can refer to and understand authors' characters, stories and events even before reading the primary texts themselves. Or, indeed, they can read other authors' interpretations of their books before reading the 'original'. We can know "Wuthering Heights According to Spike Milligan" and Jane Urquhart's Changing Heaven before we ever read Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights itself. We can know Henry James' take on 'Jane Eyre' in The Turn of the Screw before we read Charlotte Brontë's novel. We can know Francois Truffaut's Two English Girls before we know the Brontës. And then there is Jules and Jim. I know students whose first exposure to Wuthering Heights was from a Second City TV sketch, a wordless skit using semaphor.

This does not, of course, mean that books exist only in this process of cultural referral. But it is one way in which our understanding of books is filtered through this cultural static.

And, of course, another way to look at this question is to ask why Peter Jackson portrayed the elves as he did.

[Imladris]

So, Bethberry, are you saying that the way we view stories is affected by culture? Of course, people would also have different images of the things Tolkien described.

As for the games -- I was in no way implying that you held poor games. If I had thought about it like I do now I would have asked them to edit it. As it is, this just struck me a few days ago and those were written a few months ago. *shrugs* I didnt think it was that big a deal to go and ask them to edit. It was merely an example that was more serious than pictures of Legolas shouting for his shampoo in the Middle-earth Mirth section.

[Bêthberry]

I am suggesting, Imladris, that a 'pure' or 'original' reading of Tolkien is no longer possible (if it ever was). Readers must work through the ideas they have in their head about Middle earth, elves, dwarves, etc--ideas now largely generated by the movies and marketing--in order to try to understand Tolkien's text. Strong readers will do this. Less experienced readers will not. And many will never bother to deal with Tolkien's text but will remain within a movie/cultural static perspective.

I didn't mean to imply that you run a poor game, not by any means. I simply wished to clarify a point about what we expect of games here--a point which others might not understand as clearly as you do now.

[Lalaith]

Haldir did not look/act effeminate.

Hmmm....

[Amanaduial the archer]

Personally, I enjoyed that particular section of the game particularly, and I don't think I was alone But wait, you missed a few of the choicest:

fairy-boys

treehugger

And of course, Lin's fluent cursing...

Sissy long-haired creamy-skinned pointy-eared...

However...

In this particular case of dwarves and elves: The emnity between the two races has obviously and for several combined ancestoral reasons lasted for generations. Also, in a 'cat-fight', when insults fly, as was the case when Balin's crew chanced upon the Prince and his courtiers in 'Last Hope for Moria', almost anything would be picked on by both sides! Obviously, compared to the dwarves, hardy, stout and thought to have 'sprung from stone', the litheness, elegance and height of the elves of then-Mirkwood is a huge contrast. Indeed, the elves were standing up for themselves, with such insults as:

Garden gnome!

Is this a stereotype of dwarves? Well, yes. Their height is a fundamental point of their appearance and one which other races, including the readers/viewers, would immediately pick up on - possibly even the first one they would pick up on. In the same way one of the first things to be noted upon in the case of the elves is their enduring 'vitality' and, lets face it, beauty. The elves are, as you said 'fair folk' - and this is immediately remarkable. The references to their appearance are usually, if not always, favourable. Take, for example, a description of Glorfindel in 'Many Meetings' from FotR:

Glorfindel was tall and straight: his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young...his eyes were bright and keen and his voice like music

The film has, of course, enhanced this stereotype: Orlando Bloom's having been cast as Legolas probably didn't help very much in 'combatting' this - but then, does it really need to be 'combatted' as such? The first description of Legolas was rather sparse, only a few lines:

There was also a strange elf clad in green and brown, Legolas, a messenger from his father Thranduil, King of the Elves of Northern Mirkwood.

That's it. One sentence for our first glimpse of Legolas, less than half of which actually concerns his appearance. More is given to Boromir, even - he gets a whole paragraph! And bearing in mind the sparseness of this first look at Legolas, is it really a bad thing that the film-makers decided to build Legolas into the elegant, fine-looking character who appeared in the films? This finery of appearance, as well as his elegance and litheness, is befitting to the race - look at the other descriptions of the other elves, like Elrond (see Many Meetings and The Council of Elrond for a few examples), Glorfindel (as seen above as an example), Arwen or even the Elf-kings of old, such as Gil-Galad. It may be a selective sample of the race, but it is the only one that we have - all the elves who we encounter, as far as I can see, are indeed, very, very 'fair'. And Legolas is obviously wise, a thinker rather than simply a pretty boy - maybe he does come across as a bit of a fool sometimes in the films ("A diversion" - RotK. You all know what I mean - ah yes, all of the readers of the books cringed at that point ), but he is always noble and pure, as his speech and words are wise and deep (even more so in the books). So maybe we can look back at the immortal philosophy of Roald Dahl's 'The Twits' - those with bad thoughts begin to look bad and ugly and twisted, but if you have good thoughts and do good things, your appearance will reflect that accordingly.

(And for anyone who would like to see more of the insults exchanged in the RPG thread in question, look especially at page four at Will Whitfoot's first post - pure genius...)

~Aman

[The Saucepan Man]

It seems to me that this stereotypical image of Elves as rather effeminate beings with long (often blonde) hair and high cheek bones has arisen primarily for two reasons.

First, in many children's tales (of relatively modern origin), Elves are depicted as diminutive, fairy-like creatures. An example would be the story of the Elves and the Shoemaker, but there are many other examples. And although Tolkien made clear in his writings that this was not how his Elves were to be viewed (and even expressed some regret at using the word "Elf"), many will still come to his works with preconceived notions of what Elves are. Unfortunately, his portrayal of the Rivendell Elves in The Hobbit doesn't exactly help his cause ( ) and many readers first come to his works is by way of that book. But I think that it is fair to say that he was at pains to disabuse readers of such preconceived notions, particularly in the Silmarillion, but also in his depiction of the Elves that we meet in LotR (and even in the Mirkwood Elves later on in The Hobbit - Galion certainly seems to be a bit of a lad ).

But the second reason for this stereotypical image does, I think, lie in Tolkien's own description of his Elves. Notwithstanding his efforts to portray them as strong and majestic, he also (as has been said) conceived of them as a "fair folk". And it is difficult for those visualising his works (artists and film-makers alike) to depict them as such without borrowing from society's own notions of attractiveness. Which quite often means long flowing hair, delicate features and high cheekbones.

As Firefoot has quite rightly pointed out, this way of portraying Elves pre-dates the films. It is apparent in much of the artwork depicting Tolkien's works. And it is certainly apparent in the films. Whoever was responsible for casting certainly went for long blonde hair and high cheekbones when it came to casting the Elves, particularly the "chorus line" that turns up at Helm's Deep. Elrond is a notable exception, and, despite his boyish good looks, I would nevertheless maintain that Orlando Bloom's Legolas is no cissy.

Of course, it is Orlando who has become the butt of the "hairbrush and shampoo" jokes. But I have a feeling that this is not a new phenomenon. Such jokes are certainly more prevalent now, given the widespread popularity of the films (and accompanying resurgence in the popularity of the books), and also courtesy of the relatively recent technology which allows pictures (such as film stills) to be manipulated and distributed via the internet. But I seem to recall that the Legolas character in "Bored of the Rings" was rather obsessed with his appearance. And, when I drew a picture parodying the Fellowship some 20 or more years ago, I depicted Legolas with angular features, preening his hair and admiring himself in a compact mirror.

Both examples, of course, are a form of parody. As, indeed are the many jokes and images involving Legolas that are currently circulating. But I believe that the parody has its roots in the two basic reasons for the stereotype that I outlined above.

[Imladris]

It's not that I didn't enjoy the insults on the game, because I did. I'm just wondering if it was canonical or not with Tolkien. I personally think that Aman and Saucepan Man explained it very well and I honestly had not thought of it that way before.

So elves are prime material for being made fun of then? Good for parody?